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"Login" and "Logout" are grammatically incorrect

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Grand Dizzy
 
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Post Posted December 28th, 2017, 11:06 am

I notice this site has a button saying "Login" (which changes to "Logout" when you've logged in).

My apologies for being pedantic, but I must point out that it should be "Log in" and "Log out".

"Login" can sometimes be a noun, but never a verb, and I assume the button stands for "click here to log in" (verb) rather than "click here to go to the Login page" (noun).

To use an example, it's like you might say "the burglar committed a break-in" but you could not say "the burglar broke-in" or "the burglar brokein" or "I'm going to breakin". So you wouldn't have a sign saying "Smash glass to breakin". Hope that makes sense. :)

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Post Posted December 28th, 2017, 11:12 am

:sleeping:
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James
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Post Posted December 28th, 2017, 12:34 pm

Grand Dizzy wrote:I notice this site has a button saying "Login" (which changes to "Logout" when you've logged in).

My apologies for being pedantic, but I must point out that it should be "Log in" and "Log out".

"Login" can sometimes be a noun, but never a verb, and I assume the button stands for "click here to log in" (verb) rather than "click here to go to the Login page" (noun).

This independent of Mozilla forum uses phpBB 3 software and even the phpBB's own forum https://www.phpbb.com/community/ uses the Login word. Complain to them.

John Liebson
 
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Post Posted December 28th, 2017, 12:37 pm


Grand Dizzy
 
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Post Posted December 28th, 2017, 3:45 pm

James wrote:This independent of Mozilla forum uses phpBB 3 software and even the phpBB's own forum https://www.phpbb.com/community/ uses the Login word. Complain to them.

Well since this is not my forum, it's not my problem. If I had my own phpBB forum then I would certainly be trying to get this fixed, as it's embarrassing.

John Liebson wrote:https://www.google.com/search?q=define+login

I'm glad Google agrees with me, but their dictionary is a little simple, and not very authoritative. In fact, there are dictionaries which do have the word listed as a verb. Here's one, with a good explanation of why its use is frowned upon:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/login?s=t

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Post Posted December 28th, 2017, 4:11 pm

I'm glad Google agrees with me, but their dictionary is a little simple, and not very authoritative. In fact, there are dictionaries which do have the word listed as a verb. Here's one, with a good explanation of why its use is frowned upon:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/login?s=t


Apparently you did not follow some of the links that the link I provided were provided for you to look at, not just the Google entry..

I suppose that you would find something to complain about were I to point out to you that modern English comes directly from Anglo-Frisian dialects, on the specious grounds that you cannot read nor speak any of those languages, and perhaps would prefer a reversion to the Celtic languages that predominated prior to the incursions of Germanic invaders and settlers. Mabe you still regret the Great Vowel Shift in England, which began in the late 14th century and was complete by about 1550, and caused Middle English to be replaced by Modern English.

Languages change constantly worldwide, and language usage does likewise. Languages and their usages, even when they appear to be the same from one place to another, also vary. Style manuals for different news sources often disagree with each other as to the proper way to write or otherwise disseminate the news.

Grand Dizzy
 
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Post Posted December 28th, 2017, 6:07 pm

John Liebson wrote:I suppose that you would find something to complain about were I to point out to you that modern English comes directly from Anglo-Frisian dialects, on the specious grounds that you cannot read nor speak any of those languages, and perhaps would prefer a reversion to the Celtic languages that predominated prior to the incursions of Germanic invaders and settlers. Mabe you still regret the Great Vowel Shift in England, which began in the late 14th century and was complete by about 1550, and caused Middle English to be replaced by Modern English.

I'm not against language evolving, I just wasn't particularly aware of "login" being used as a verb. I was originally going to label this a "bug" because I see this more as a technical error. To me, the word looks like it originated in programmers' shorthand. (Subroutines and variables often don't allow spaces so you'll get things like LogIn, ButtonClick, etc.)

It's also worth mentioning that when language evolves, it's usually based on convenience or diversity, which is a genuine improvement to the langauge. Sometimes we create new words, or adopt words from other languages, because they're useful, colorful, descriptive, and give us more tools in our linguistic belt. Many other times, language shifts are dictated by simplicity of speech, which leads to contractions, hybrid words, suffixes, etc.

In most cases, I'm all in favor of new words and word forms, because they improve the language and aid communication. In fact, there are many words I wish I could add to the dictionary myself, including "there're" (a contraction of "there are") and "gunnoo" (a contraction of "going to" when the 'to' is stressed.)

However, there are times when language shifts for no reason other than someone makes an error, other people emulate that error, and it spreads. It's those relatively rare instances of language "evolution" that quite rightly can get on people's nerves. "Login" as a verb would fall into that category. Turning it into a single word isn't an improvement to the language. It doesn't aid communication or convenience of speech.

If taken to its natural conclusion, and "login" becomes a single word, then it precludes saying things like "I'll log you in" and "I'm logging in right now" and instead you'd have to say "I'll login you" and "I'm loginning right now" or "The system has logouted me".

And everyone has the right to point out when words sounds stupid!

(Just for the record, I want to make it clear that I am neither pedantic nor stubbornly traditional. I'm British, and yet I only use American English in my writing because American English is more universal. I don't think any language purist would ever make such a concession, but to me, communication is paramount.)

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Post Posted December 28th, 2017, 8:32 pm

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I'm British and I find that I need to use very few words to make myself clearly understood.

http://www.oed.com/loginpage

http://public.oed.com/about/
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Grand Dizzy
 
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Post Posted December 29th, 2017, 3:22 am

Frank Lion wrote:I'm British and I find that I need to use very few words to make myself clearly understood.

Succinctness has it merit, but not in the context of two people having a conversation about something they both find fascinating.

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Post Posted December 29th, 2017, 3:30 am

As long as "we'awll" keep it civil....
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Frank Lion

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Post Posted December 29th, 2017, 7:32 am

Grand Dizzy wrote:Succinctness has it merit, but not in the context of two people having a conversation about something they both find fascinating.

Find someone else who find faulty logic fascinating and you'll be good to go then. Good luck with that around here though, this is a tech forum where good logic skills loom large.

Grand Dizzy wrote: and I assume the button stands for "click here to log in" (verb) rather than "click here to go to the Login page" (noun).

You assume wrong. Clicking there does indeed go to the Login page.

Grand Dizzy wrote:Succinctness has it merit

Succinctness has its merit, old boy.
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Grand Dizzy
 
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Post Posted December 30th, 2017, 5:32 am

Are all 19,553 of your posts so argumentative, arrogant and hostile? I pity this forum if they are.

Frank Lion wrote:You assume wrong. Clicking there does indeed go to the Login page.

It could still mean "log in". The "Logout" button doesn't go to a "Logout" page, it simply logs out. I think most people would interpret these buttons as the verbs "log in" and "log out". Just like "view your posts" is clearly a verb.

In any case, this issue was resolved in the third post when it was pointed out that this is a feature of all phpBB forums. So we can forget about it now!

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Post Posted December 30th, 2017, 7:25 am

Grand Dizzy,
One of the rules you agreed to when signing up for this forum was "No personal attacks". Don't do it again.

Locking this.

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