malliz wrote:Any reason why an official statement from Mozilla couldn't be posted? Thats what gets peoples backs up the secrecy and if I don't want to hear one more "this is posted on blah blah and is available for all to see". It's only available if you know where and how to look.
I totally agree. I've asked on the newsgroup here.
np wrote:We do have a license on articles in the KB- the GFDL. I know that the MDC folks think we can't directly copy development articles from the KB to there because of the differences in licensing. I don't think kerz has the authority to allow a change in license on behalf of the editors, so whatever license Mozilla chooses would have to be compatible to be able to copy the content. I'd imagine such a compatible license would work the other way too.
When somebody created a dual license KB template I raised the issue of who owns the rights to forum posts and knowledge base articles in the moderators forum on 12 Apr 2007. kerz stated:
"The content on the kb is basically owned by the site I guess, so I guess that's myself legally I suppose. I've never really published a license anywhere for such things, and I think it's fine to leave it that way". and "I've removed the page, and requested they contact me."
So there is a contradiction. Looking at the historyof the copyrights article its not 100% clear that kerz knows it was published, or that he approved it.
Mozilla is planning on copying and then modifying our articles. This would seem to require licensing them per the GFDL and providing a direct link to the original article. If they're not doing that, then I assume they are copying them because kerz gave them permission to. My naive impression is that he can give them permission to do so if he "owns" the rights, but can't do that if the only rights are those provided by the GFDL.
This is a mess. I hope kerz resolves it in a way that the mozilla KB, MDC and ourselves can both copy and modify copied material without having to worry about licensing issues.
For the record, I didn't know of that license existing. That being said, I'm sure we're going to work something out to benefit all. Let's see what the mozilla folks come up with, and we can work out the details when they're known. I have faith they'll do the right thing.
Phil as I see it this is more about poor communication than a "us or them" mentality. If when this was decided on, someone from Mozilla had told the Mozillazine community what was intended and asked for help I am sure most of the trouble could have been avoided and the usual community spirit would have continued. But for some reason either by an oversight or just poor communication skills this was not done. The result? Misunderstanding and mistrust, all for the want of a post here. Personally I think it's a failing within Moz.org. This type of thing should not happen but unfortunately it does and it needs to be addressed and soon.
What sort of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter. "Terry Pratchett"
Yes Phil but not something thats 7 months old. Obviously decisions were made after that thread. All they had to do was say so. Not a difficult thing to do and most people would have been satisfied. I said most because as you know you can never keep all of the people happy all of the time
Edit: I think posting on mozillazine about things that affect mozillazine would be far better than a blog or a newsgroup. Anyway we are losing track of the fact that NP has asked for something to be posted and it looks like it will. Maybe a lesson learned all around.
What sort of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter. "Terry Pratchett"
Now, whether you old guy or not, you sit down and read that whole thread. I believe that some people at Mozilla deliberately set out to discredit MozillaZine so as to make it easier to complete their later plans for Mozilla doing support. That was a wicked and sly thing to do and caused much resentment here. You don't like big business? nor to I, but these were the tactics of big business not the Open Source movement that first built Mozilla and Firefox.
You want to point finger? You just make sure that you point it right way.
now i dont think its a good idea to remove anything from mozillazine givin the amount of ppl who use it and stuff i think it would alienate thousands passably millions of users
most ppl think that Mozillazine is the offical source of firefox help as is even though it says on this site it is not
zmanzero wrote:if we help over there do we get paid?
Nope.
If anyone has any feedback, questions, concerns, or complaints about the support.mozilla.com project, please tell Mozilla in mozilla.support.planning (newsgroup/mailing list/Google Group). Don't assume someone will pass anything on for you.
Now, whether you old guy or not, you sit down and read that whole thread. I believe that some people at Mozilla deliberately set out to discredit MozillaZine so as to make it easier to complete their later plans for Mozilla doing support. That was a wicked and sly thing to do and caused much resentment here. You don't like big business? nor to I, but these were the tactics of big business not the Open Source movement that first built Mozilla and Firefox.
You want to point finger? You just make sure that you point it right way.
This post simply confirms my belief that some people here are more interested in childish playground fights than in finding the best way to provide support.
Isn't it blindingly obvious that it is better for Firefox users (the people that matter) if support comes from the same organisation that develops the product?
Last edited by Phil Bridger on June 25th, 2007, 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
zmanzero wrote:if we help over there do we get paid?
Nope.
If anyone has any feedback, questions, concerns, or complaints about the support.mozilla.com project, please tell Mozilla in mozilla.support.planning (newsgroup/mailing list/Google Group). Don't assume someone will pass anything on for you.
If we are supposed to be a community, why wouldn't they pass things on to us? If they won't, then I can only assume that there is no community.
Last edited by Daifne on June 25th, 2007, 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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