phiw13 wrote:I suspect that WebKit might be less prone to breaking things for embeders. Gecko people seem particularly good at that, requiring Camino dev time to fix things again and again.
Given that WebKit.framework is designed to be embedded, one would certainly hope so That's not to say it would be all cherries and roses, of course, especially the more complex your app, but aside from writing and maintaining one's own rendering engine, I don't think anything can be as painful as embedding Gecko has become over the last several years…
Of course, pink or smorgan could give a better picture.
David, I'm pretty sure the first and foremost priority is getting Camino 2.1 out of the door (as noted in blog post and on the Camino developers mailing list. That mailing list seems the best place right now to follow the debate about the future.
Uncle Asad wrote:I hope that we can generate enough new developer interest to make a WebKit-based future possible.
I'm just curious—what would the point of a WebKit-based Camino be, exactly? Besides legacy users that have some attachment to it, what would a WebKit-based Camino offer that is significantly different than, say, Safari or Chrome?
I know as a user I always used Camino as basically a faster, smoother Firefox when I needed either to check Gecko rendering or just needed an alternate browser for compatibility reasons. A WebKit-based Camino would not fit those needs for me.
Uncle Asad wrote:I hope that we can generate enough new developer interest to make a WebKit-based future possible.
I'm just curious—what would the point of a WebKit-based Camino be, exactly?
I guess the same points as the current Gecko-based Camino. Fine tuned and fast browser, with features not built into all other browsers. Like FlashBlock, Adblock, advanced cookies management, Keychain Access support, and more. Always great to have alternatives.
Pretty much like asking what is the point of Skoda cars when Volkswagen, Audi and Seat use the exact same engines.
David Munch wrote:B. Maintain a separate branch of Gecko embedding
This is not possible, at all, in any way. (We already maintain the majority of embedding for Cocoa inside of Camino anyway [CHBrowserView]; it's the parts of embedding that are outside of Camino and of our control that have been the problems in the past, and which will be the problems in the future.)
To do what you think you're envisioning in fact means maintaining a permanent fork of all of Gecko, continually applying every patch from upstream and undoing/redoing changes that break embedding, and fixing the unexpected fallout from your own changes, which will get worse over time, etc., ad nauseam. Maybe a dozen full-time developers devoted to just that part (not to Camino itself) could perhaps make it possible, but that's not fun work.
Tael_ wrote:I can't imagine surfing without Camino.
Me either I hope that we can generate enough new developer interest to make a WebKit-based future possible.
My condolences as one of the elder K-Meleon end users. We face the same bleak future as you (and Galeon, if it were still in development). Mozilla has dealt the open source world a disservice here.
-N- Si vis pacem, para bellum FrameWork, SeaMonkey(64-bit),Windows 10 Pro (X64- 21H2), WinPatrol, Malwarebytes & Panda Dome
cflawson wrote:Would you mind putting together a how-to guide for this? It'd be really useful, if for no other reason than to have some sort of centralized resource.
Still looking for a solution for cookie handling (making them session only, permanently blocking some). There is an input manager somewhere that does the job, but is is an input manager…
I'll pen a longer write-up once I've some longer block of time.
Howdy,
Is there anything for Safari that is the equivalent of ``shortcuts'' for Camino (or FireFox)? I don't know how I'd live without those since I prefer using the keyboard as much as possible. Unfortunately I can't stand the look and feel of FireFox.
I use http://hetima.com/safari/stand-e.html (SafariStand) which does everything I need. Search from the URL bar, find as you type, block plug-ins, site alteration so you can block images and plugins on sites or even change the font size. And while I don't use the feature, you can have tabs thumbnails (like Omniweb) rather than just tabs. Been using it for years and without it I would find Safari lacking features I have grown used to. There are now extensions to do these things, but I like SafariStand. It does it all with one plug-in.
herbs wrote:Is there anything for Safari that is the equivalent of ``shortcuts'' for Camino (or FireFox)?
I assume you mean the bookmark shortcuts, and I believe the answer to that is "no".
cl
Howdy,
Yes, that's what I mean. I wish I knew enough about Cocoa to help out but I don't. Much better to go to Webkit than to lose Camino and it's wonderful interface. Been using it since Chimera days.
I was pretty depressed when I saw the blog post, deciding to live in denial until absolutely forced to choose another browser. But I'm more encouraged now after seeing the article on ars, and the Google group on possible Camino-WebKit. There are replies and Stuart sounds enthusiastic, so hopefully something will come of it, maybe even something better than Camino-Gecko could have ever been -- you never know when stuff like this happens (one door opens when another closes blah blah).
If/When you get to the appropriate point, I'm good for bug-testing development builds. In fact, I would be honored to have my computer crashed by the first pre-alpha of Camino-WebKit.
thom-22 wrote:I was pretty depressed when I saw the blog post, deciding to live in denial until absolutely forced to choose another browser. But I'm more encouraged now after seeing the article on ars, and the Google group on possible Camino-WebKit. There are replies and Stuart sounds enthusiastic, so hopefully something will come of it, maybe even something better than Camino-Gecko could have ever been -- you never know when stuff like this happens (one door opens when another closes blah blah).
Ditto on all counts
I don't know how many people here remember the mid-90s and Mac clones (and specifically Power Computing), but this ad immediately sprang to mind; I think it's quite relevant to our situation (s/Mac/Camino/ and s/mouse/mouse or trackpad/, of course)
We don't want to let Camino go, but we definitely need to supplement our development manpower to make the transition.
Most of this stuff is beyond me, all I can say is I really enjoy Camino and appreciate the hard work everyone has put into it. GOOD LUCK CAMINO, I'm with ya!
Uncle Asad wrote: I don't know how many people here remember the mid-90s and Mac clones (and specifically Power Computing), but this ad immediately sprang to mind; I think it's quite relevant to our situation (s/Mac/Camino/ and s/mouse/mouse or trackpad/, of course)
We don't want to let Camino go, but we definitely need to supplement our development manpower to make the transition.
Uncle Asad,
We users of K-Meleon are having the exact same conversation right now. Moving to WebKit would take KM back to 0.9 stuff. Will be able to keep KKO's scripting language though, but perhaps have to go to LUA as Preferences, the little XUL used and JavaScript Console all would be lost. Manpower is a problem in KM also.
P.S. I do remember Power Computing well, although not that ad!
-N- Si vis pacem, para bellum FrameWork, SeaMonkey(64-bit),Windows 10 Pro (X64- 21H2), WinPatrol, Malwarebytes & Panda Dome
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That's not to say it would be all cherries and roses, of course, especially the more complex your app, but aside from writing and maintaining one's own rendering engine, I don't think anything can be as painful as embedding Gecko has become over the last several years…
