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Camino reaches its end

Talk about the native Mac OS X browser.

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haleakalari

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Post Posted June 5th, 2013, 2:01 pm

This is actually kind of depressing. Been with Camino since 2006 and it has remained my most heavily used browser to date. Since I prefer using the mac I have that runs Tiger, this is the end of my using a web browser on my main machine, that still has developers behind it.

Anyway, many bushels of thanks to the Camino team and everyone who did those nice custom builds (I'm lookin' at you, RPMozley and Yokota), for all the hard work over the years! I hope someone forks the project.
the bemonstering of your ganache awaits!

jwthomas
 
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Post Posted June 5th, 2013, 3:21 pm

I'd wanted to thank Yokota in my post, too, but either I'd never known his name or forgotten it. Thanks, Yokota!
-John Thomas

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Post Posted July 3rd, 2013, 2:04 am

I regret that Camino comes to an end, albeit I understand the engineering reasons for that. I use Camino daily and plan to continue using it for the reasons I will explain below.

Let me comment on the argument, that other browsers, such as Chrome, would be a comparably safer alternative than Camino. I do not believe this is correct.

First, I wish to emphasize that I agree that security is indeed an important issue, but this is exactly why I believe one should never even consider using Chrome. Reason being that I use 'Little Snitch' to intercept every attempt of any process trying to send some information to the outside of my Mac. I was shocked to learn what Chrome is doing when I launched it first time: It seems to record every single user action, every click, and to send all out to the internet.

Security is not only the issue of becoming prey to some attack, say a phishing attack or trojan being smuggled into your system. Security is at least as importantly controlled by what you send out from your system. Thus security should not be looked at one-sidedly and to believe you would be safe, if you succeed in preventing any malware to enter your system. There may also be ordinary programs such as Chrome that you should be concerned about. Programs which simply seem to turn you very close into what we call here in German speaking Europe the "vitreous man". I believe every browser (and possibly other similar software revealing much about your personal interests) should be looked at much more closely than this is generally done.

Security depends in the end on the user to a very large extent. Many studies have shown that the so-called human factor is most critical. Therefore security depends also on what is known about what you do and how you behave. The more other parties know about a particular person, the easier it is to attack that person. Therefore I consider a program such as Chrome to come close to "malware" in the sense that it sends too much information about you out to the internet. I at least have no idea what Google is all doing with all those personalized data they are collecting. I find this honestly terrible and people can lament about big brother state watching you as much as they want these days (Snowden affair), but there are other "big brothers" than the state in IMHO already very active and this may potentially become at least as dangerous than what many fear from governments' intelligence, who at least in democratic societies pursue in general the duty to protect us citizens from terrorism and similar dangers.

This is NOT to criticize Google, a company that may collect all these data with no bad intention in mind. However, if data are or can be passed on to third parties to finance Google, which is AFAI understand the case for the data Chrome collects, then you have no idea whether criminals gain access to those data at some point. Data which can be easily misused to attack persons.

This is my reason for never using Chrome again and to stick with Camino. It does not record all my user actions and does not send them out to some massive data collection. Even if Camino is less safe in terms of detecting malware possibly trying to enter my system. Compared to the other, more acceptable alternatives mentioned, I find Camino to be much less cumbersome, almost elegant, relative to an alternative such as the huge, slow to launch FireFox. Meaning, the only alternative mentioned left I consider efficiently enough is Safari (or then all the other, here not mentioned browsers such as Opera or iCab).

These just a few thoughts on why I deeply regret Camino is no longer going to be maintained. Really a pity!

Nevertheless, let me not only warn from using Chrome naively, let me also thank the developers and maintainers of Camino whole-heartedly. They have done a fabulous job!!

All the best and take care!

Andreas Fischlin

jwthomas
 
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Post Posted July 3rd, 2013, 6:17 am

Try Maxthon. It runs on the very fast Chrome engine (which is Open Source) but has no connection to Google. I'd be interested in hearing what Little Snitch reveals about its safety 8-[
-John Thomas

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Post Posted July 3rd, 2013, 1:40 pm

I'm still trying to find a browser that gives you anywhere near the same control over cookies as Camino did. Maxthon's major drawback is that you cannot access, whitelist or blocklist stored cookies at all -- not easily anyway. I don't trust Google Chrome, but have been using the open-source Chromium in the hope -- perhaps foolishly -- that it is less invasive to my privacy than Chrome is. Camino is irreplaceable IMHO. Any suggestions, comments, etc. for a tolerable alternative?

JB

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Post Posted July 3rd, 2013, 2:21 pm

I have settled on Aurora. It's the nightly build of Firefox. I was a nightly user of Camino and always liked "living on the edge." 8-[
It's Gecko, it's fast enough for me and I like the customizing of the skin and features that I want.
It's not Camino, but it's close enough....
Camino Lives!
Yes Indeed!

jwthomas
 
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Post Posted July 3rd, 2013, 10:05 pm

cleanhead wrote:I'm still trying to find a browser that gives you anywhere near the same control over cookies as Camino did. Maxthon's major drawback is that you cannot access, whitelist or blocklist stored cookies at all -- not easily anyway. I don't trust Google Chrome, but have been using the open-source Chromium in the hope -- perhaps foolishly -- that it is less invasive to my privacy than Chrome is. Camino is irreplaceable IMHO. Any suggestions, comments, etc. for a tolerable alternative?


The Mac app "Cookie" will give you cookie control for all the "major" browsers plus Camino. It's inexpensive shareware. The free Firefox extension "Self Destructing Cookies" will give you automatic cookie control once you set preferences. For Maxthon add the "Ghostery" and/or Abine's "Do Not Track Me" extensions. And BTW, Chromium is an exact clone of Chrome in every way. In reality, all browsers at any given time have dozens of bots spying on your preferences. The key to their control isn't just the browser, it's the security extensions you add to it and the caution you use clicking links on web pages and in mail.
-John Thomas

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Post Posted July 4th, 2013, 9:57 am

Cookie is a great app. I'd been using Safari Cookies, by the same developer, too. My point, I guess, is that Camino had that kind of functionality built in, plus ad-blocking and flashblock, without any add-ons -- while still avoiding the bloat that afflicts other browsers. But we knew that already, didn't we?...

upkeep

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Post Posted August 9th, 2013, 7:04 am

Well, I kind of knew this day may come, and sure enough, it has. :cry:

My experience with Camino over all these years has (especially since 2.x) been wonderful. Fast, lightweight, and having just the amount of functionality I require. And being stuck on 10.4.11 for the foreseeable future, it will be hard to replace. I'm currently flirting with TenFourFox but it is an absolute resource pig. Pages load glacially and RAM usage is obscene. Gross. I may say 's*d it' and switch back to Camino and milk it as far as I can go. (So far I haven't been denied entry anywhere) I'll also keep looking for a replacement, but realistically, it may just come in the form of a 'disposable' refurbed iPad. That's what everyone is using, right? *smirk/nudge/wink*

Anyhow, I have to thank all the people here who made Camino such a wonderful experience for me over all these years. Even though I may not have expressed it, I really appreciated all the hard work put in bringing forward a Mac-specific, unique browser. I will miss the ongoing relationship.

I sincerely thank you all again.

-C.M. Laspa

jwthomas
 
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Post Posted August 9th, 2013, 7:23 am

Firefox 3.6.28 works on 10.4.11 as do many of its most useful extensions. I've used it in the past and never found it to be a resource hog. OmniWeb works even with 10.4.8. I'd recommend either of them. I still keep OmniWeb among my own arsenal of browsers.
-John Thomas

upkeep

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Post Posted August 9th, 2013, 8:29 am

jwthomas wrote:Firefox 3.6.28 works on 10.4.11 as do many of its most useful extensions. I've used it in the past and never found it to be a resource hog. OmniWeb works even with 10.4.8. I'd recommend either of them. I still keep OmniWeb among my own arsenal of browsers.


Thanx for the heads-up, John. I will look into those.

TolikLavonovitch
 
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Post Posted August 20th, 2013, 5:46 pm

I dont know why they would stop development on this and scrap it , its far better for mac users than anything that is out there now . Too bad . Politics at work .

LoudNoise
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Post Posted August 20th, 2013, 6:38 pm

It is an open source project. You are welcome to take it over (you might have to rename it though).
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James
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Post Posted August 21st, 2013, 12:32 am

TolikLavonovitch wrote:I dont know why they would stop development on this and scrap it , its far better for mac users than anything that is out there now . Too bad . Politics at work .

From end of first page
cflawson wrote:The source code is open and available. Anyone with the ability to code Objective-C, or the ability to recruit volunteers who can, is more than welcome to modify it. The reason active development has ceased is that (chiefly, among other reasons) people fitting that description became too scarce to keep up a viable development schedule.

cl

upkeep

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Post Posted August 22nd, 2013, 6:39 am

TolikLavonovitch wrote:I dont know why they would stop development on this and scrap it , its far better for mac users than anything that is out there now . Too bad . Politics at work .


I can't speak to politics, but I can say that in my personal usage experience, Camino outruns TenFourFox hugely. Camino starts to load pages near-instantly on my lackluster, hit'n'miss broadband connection, while TFF still shows a white page and spinning wheel. I'm in the site and out while TFF is still deciding how to load the page. :roll:

TFF was able to continue to support 10.4.11 largely (but not exclusively) due to the elimination of Java and Flash support. Well, I have Flash turned off in Camino (HTML5 is taking over anyhow) along with Java. No problems for me.

Pity Camino couldn't be continued under a similar point of view. Simply put, on a dodgy broadband connection, Camino runs circles around TFF or FF for Mac.

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