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We need more themers.

Discuss application theming and theme development.
aconbere

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Post Posted December 2nd, 2004, 8:59 pm

on A side note I don't think that my own knowledge is comprehensive, and that this project would suffer from being relegated to a single voice.

Anders

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Post Posted December 2nd, 2004, 9:21 pm

I'd help, but I don't think I could comment good, I don't know how to comment, lol. Plus, most of my knowledge is learned as I go, I only know the features that I've changed.
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aconbere

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Post Posted December 2nd, 2004, 9:24 pm

:P you know more than someone who hasn't ever cracked a theme!

(PS I could actualy start on this begining wednesday afternoon, the end of my last final)

sorry if I'm flodding this thread, but this is an idea I've bounced around for some time.

Anders

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Post Posted December 2nd, 2004, 9:32 pm

I got school in the way during the week and partying on the weekends. I could maybe sneak some time in on Saturday and Sunday afternoons and after school every day.
Firefox is the best browser known to mankind. 2 out of 3 geeks agree. <br>
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Check out my site, I made sure it was firefox compatible the easiest way I knew how; I developed and tested it using firefox. :)

Scarrow

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Post Posted December 2nd, 2004, 9:47 pm

While I'm partial to starting with Whitehart since many of the redundant and uncessary parts of classic have been removed in it while it remains fully featured. I would probably start with the "classic" backbone, and just start commenting.


Then why not begin with <em>Whitehart</em> in this case?
In my opinion, the more minimal the better.

As it stands, sifting through all the redundancy in many .jar files makes for a terrible learning curve.

If you already have it lean and elegant, why not work from there?

One can wax extravagant later.

- Edit -

In fact, I do believe Pizzach was working on a similar project:

<a href="http://pizzach.ambitiouslemon.com/FireFoxDictionary/seachbyheiarchy.html">Here.</a>

It's rather unfinished however.

aconbere

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Post Posted December 3rd, 2004, 1:55 pm

well... I suppose I could. I suppose the benefits of classic are that most users would be familiar with the icon sets, and that the css, is more standard to all the rest of the themes.

Anders

Eyes-Only

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Post Posted December 5th, 2004, 10:52 am

I seem to recall a project that Netscape had started once (with Netscape 6.0?) yet never finished---can't recall the name of it---which basically called up a "dummy Netscape browser, emailer, etc." and it allowed you to change such things as all the icons, the background skins, sizes of the padding, fonts (I believe?), and things like that. When done it saved your changes into a .jar file with theme name which you could install and share (?). Of course it didn't last long because with the update of the browser it was quickly broken. Too bad there wasn't something like that around that couldn't have a team that kept it constantly updated with each milestone. Although, as lynchknot duly noted (and I agreed with him---and still do) you'll have a lot of people just dumping in icons and so you may not have many high-quality themes out there should such a programme exist. On the otherhand, there's always going to be the rare Monét and van Gogh who will show up with this (witness Avant which uses this system and has some great themers) that may not have shown up otherwise just because they couldn't have cut through all that coding.

Heck... with a system as easy as that even I could start making themes. And as lynchknot knows, with a system as easy as that I for one wouldn't be making trash. ;)

Eh bien... rien est parfait (sauf moi!) ("Oh well... nothing's perfect---except me!) hehe!

Amicalement,

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EDIT #1: Forgot to add that aconbere's idea is a great one though! :D
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My Left Hand

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Post Posted December 5th, 2004, 11:18 am

i agree, more themers are required.

now this is going to sound harsh, but the impression i get with most themes i've seen is that they were made by programmers and not designers. until there's some sort of incentive for designers to start building themes, i think this is a trend likely to continue.

ehume

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Post Posted December 5th, 2004, 11:56 am

Most of the work you need to do for the most basic theming is in browser/Browser.css. It's the place to start.

I, for one, had to get used to how the zip programs work. If you try to zip a directory like SphereGnome to make SphereGnome.zip (which you rename SphereGnome.jar), you end up with a directory structure that is wrong. You have to start out inside the original SphereGnome directory, do a ctrl-A and zip the bundle together. That's the basic level where I started.

Working with themes, trying to affect more and more items it them, learning to use the DOM Inspector, these things come with time. One important thing, for example, was that with SphereGnome and the Scribblies themes being so old, there was no mozapps directory structure. So I imported that and then had to find everywhere the code that is now in mozapps used to be--duplicate settings are not terribly helpful.

So there was a learning curve, but it was doable. It helps to look at other people's themes. I learned about hover states for bookmarks folders from another theme, for example.

It all seems overwhelming, but theme-coding can be learned. As for the art, well, that's why we have people like lynchknot.
Firefox: Sic transit gloria mundi.

lynchknot
 
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Post Posted December 5th, 2004, 1:39 pm

I appreciate the help guys but it's going to require much more than inserting install.rdf and find.css.(and whatever else) There is that secure site mode to think about and many other problems

now this is going to sound harsh, but the impression i get with most themes i've seen is that they were made by programmers and not designers.
- if you have a better idea then let's see it - or describe it.

I cannot call myself a programmer, designer, or even an artist - I use other's art (for the most part) and throw together what appeals to me. hehe, I have no idea how to use the DOM inspector as well. Yeah, my themes are a css mess - but they work for me.

ehume, I have never unzipped or zipped a theme. I work right out of the JAR by double clicking and drag and drop
Last edited by lynchknot on December 5th, 2004, 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lucx
 
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Post Posted December 5th, 2004, 1:47 pm

...
4. drag and drop new image over old one - careful lining it up
5. delete old layer png
6. drag and drop new png into theme jar
...

...you'll have a lot of people just dumping in icons and so you may not have many high-quality themes out there should such a programme exist.


Make sure you *carefully* place your new png into the jar rather than haphazardly dumping it in [insert whatever emoticon you find appropriate]. Sorry, but it just has to be mentioned.

The number of high quaility themes will not decrease if there was a theme making tool. The threat of more poor quality themes will always exist as it does now.

lynchknot
 
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Post Posted December 5th, 2004, 1:51 pm

lucx wrote:

Make sure you *carefully* place your new png into the jar rather than haphazardly dumping it in [insert whatever emoticon you find appropriate]. Sorry, but it just has to be mentioned.


Care to expain how you "carefully" place the new png into the jar? I drag and drop that sucker in the browser folder - I do not know of a "carefull" way to do it.

lucx
 
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Post Posted December 5th, 2004, 2:23 pm

... the impression i get with most themes i've seen is that they were made by programmers and not designers.

This is not a problem, but the general structure of the visual communications industry. There are creative designers and productions artists; web designers and web developers. The design people make pretty visuals and rely on the production people to implement it because they have no interest in writing code or whatever technical implementation. And the coders don't care that something is the wrong shade of red or that the space between the letters T and e are too far apart.

So, the way to get more themers making more good themes is to pair up the pretty-picture-makers with the coding-is-fun-folks. I believe the Gerich and Horlander team is a fine example.

Then there’s the rare few who excel in both worlds and sound pretentious up on their high horse. Gee, I wonder who that could be.
Last edited by lucx on December 5th, 2004, 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lynchknot
 
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Post Posted December 5th, 2004, 2:32 pm

lucx wrote:
Then there’s the rare few who excel in both worlds and sound pretentious up on their high horse. Gee, I wonder who that could be.


You've got issues if you are impying me. Your are one of the few that excel in both - as you sit, smug, on your saddle. I do not excel in either. As I have stated, I'm neither an artist nor a coder. Can you go a day without trying to insult someone?

lucx
 
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Post Posted December 5th, 2004, 2:48 pm

Aww lynchknot, you’re too sensitive. Have a cup of hot chocolate and enjoy yourself while I use this whip in my hand to self-deprecate myself.

Cheers.

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