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Mozilla want to kill the themes?

Discuss application theming and theme development.
LoudNoise
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Post Posted January 29th, 2013, 8:33 pm

malliz wrote:http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2650547
I wonder how many just don't bother to ask?


Made into a sticky until this is resolved.
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LoudNoise
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Post Posted January 29th, 2013, 8:41 pm

jorgev wrote:
Add-on stats are private by default, but developers can make them public if they choose to. So, for example, you can see the stats for Remote XUL Manager, but not the stats for Easy YouTube Video Downloader. Same goes for themes. Personas are different because I believe the update ping still points to getpersonas.com, so they are handled differently. If I try to look at the stats for a Persona, I see a message saying there is no data.


So, other then download numbers you folks don't actually have any information about how popular/how many folks use Personas?
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LoudNoise
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Post Posted January 29th, 2013, 9:14 pm

jorgev wrote:As for the bug fix being delayed, that tends to happen when there's design work at play. First the design needs to be approved, then implemented and finally pushed. We're trying to get this out as soon as possible. The change to Complete Themes (another oversight in the old design) was just an easy change which is why it was done first.


It is curious that this bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=822486 , which resulted in a major change, got pushed with three posts and in less then a month.
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Post Posted January 30th, 2013, 7:35 am

LoudNoise wrote:
It is curious that this bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=822486 , which resulted in a major change, got pushed with three posts and in less then a month.


Nice that this bug got fixed in less than a month. =D>

It only took nine months to file it.

Personas Joining Themes Family

We all wish some other bugs would get fixed that fast.
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Post Posted January 30th, 2013, 8:31 am

LoudNoise wrote:So, other then download numbers you folks don't actually have any information about how popular/how many folks use Personas?

We do have usage numbers, but they're not gathered (or at least not displayed on the stats dashboard) on AMO. I think they are gathered on getpersonas.com and then mirrored to AMO, which is what you see on listing pages under Daily Users. I can't tell you for sure if they include disabled instances, but I would guess that they do.
Jorge Villalobos
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malliz
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Post Posted January 30th, 2013, 1:52 pm

Meanwhile what about just getting the AMO page fixed as a matter of priority? Seriously if it had a bug in it it would have been fixed already you are talking to people who know how to code web pages and know how quickly this could be solved if Mozilla wanted to
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Post Posted January 30th, 2013, 2:24 pm

malliz wrote:Meanwhile what about just getting the AMO page fixed as a matter of priority?

It is a priority, and it is scheduled to be fixed and pushed live tomorrow.

malliz wrote:Seriously if it had a bug in it it would have been fixed already

There are hundreds if not thousands of open AMO bugs. Add to that the fact that most developers are focusing on the new Marketplace.

malliz wrote:you are talking to people who know how to code web pages and know how quickly this could be solved if Mozilla wanted to

Coding a web page is different from maintaining a site as large as AMO. It's not just a matter of editing a file and uploading it to a server. If it were just a simple code change, it could be done within a week because of the push schedule. When it requires design work and approval by the team, it takes longer.
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Post Posted January 30th, 2013, 3:15 pm

jorgev wrote:When it requires design work and approval by the team, it takes longer.

Hmm...

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/themes/

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The main persona picture shows the pre-Firefox 4 default desktop Mac theme (round ended url/search bars, rippled scrollbars, RSS feed icon in urlbar) and has done for ages and ages now - good move to be so outdated and when 93% of the desktop market are on different Operating Systems?

Who you got on this approval team, visually impaired people with black bags over their heads standing in a dark room?

Whoever they are, they would never make the cut as theme writers - no attention to detail.
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malliz
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Post Posted January 30th, 2013, 3:45 pm

jorgev wrote:Coding a web page is different from maintaining a site as large as AMO. It's not just a matter of editing a file and uploading it to a server. If it were just a simple code change, it could be done within a week because of the push schedule. When it requires design work and approval by the team, it takes longer.

Bulldust.... what it takes is the will to change it. I remind you again many of us have actual workplace and corporate experience so cut out the rhubarb
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Post Posted January 30th, 2013, 3:50 pm

Yes, I'm sure everything in your workplace happens instantaneously by sheer will power.
Jorge Villalobos
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Post Posted January 30th, 2013, 4:01 pm

Well it wouldn't take two or three weeks of apologies and excuses if it did it would be out the door time.
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Post Posted January 30th, 2013, 4:36 pm

LoudNoise wrote:The name mess is going to big. Someone is going to have to go through MDN and replace Themes with Complete Themes and Personas with Themes. If you do a google search the only hits you get for Firefox making Themes that have anything to do with Personas is how-to pages from Brandduhder which means the means that there is likely to be an increase in hijacked search questions.

If you call something "Themes" for more then 12 years and then suddenly decided to call them something else you are asking for the trouble you are going to get. For at least a few years someone who wants to make a nice skin is going to have to work through a vast collection of useless information (to them) if they do a search. They will also need to rename all the Persona utilities at AMO.

The same problem is likely to make BrowserID largely irrelevant. It is like Coca Cola decided to concoct a new fruit drink and name it Coke while renaming the legacy cola drink Sprite.

This is classic Mozilla. It would not have been all that difficult to find a new name for BrowserID (which I'll admit sucked). Instead they chose not to do so, will either spend a hell of alot of money (or not, I have never been impressed by their attention span) changing things to avoid confusing folks, confuse them anyway and piss off a number of folks both during the change and for quite a bit afterwards.

All of which would be fine if "Persona" was an extremely compelling name to describe BrowserID. It isn't, if anything it works better for the skins. secureid isn't trademarked (securid is so it might not be the best choice) and would be a considerably better description of the product.



They should have kept the name Themes as it is for the classic themes and rename the personas as Mini Themes. Add a description in the AMO themes page, which explains that the mini themes are very simple themes
targeted at users who only want to change the background appearance of their browser and nothing else. Also that they are resource light so they are suitable for users with low-end machines. There, problem solved. The name and the description
would clarify the purpose of the personas and make their new name easily adopted by the users while maintaining the already known name of the classic themes. Simple as that.

Instead Mozilla replaces the name of a specific object ,which is already part of the general consensus of the FF user for over 12 years now, with another name while giving the original name to another object with entirely different properties.
Add to that the fact that personas are essentially skins which are very similar to the Chrome Themes and now they are also coincidentally named Themes, it is not that hard to deduce that what is happening now
is another case of the chromification process of Firefox. And Mozilla is doing nothing else apart from denying it.

And that is something that Mozilla should be ashamed of because it betrays its own philosophy and disrespects its dedicated users. And this newly adopted way of doing this, is what will eventually kill Firefox and Mozilla.
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LoudNoise
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Post Posted January 30th, 2013, 10:43 pm

jorgev wrote:Yes, I'm sure everything in your workplace happens instantaneously by sheer will power.


Briefly putting on my mod hat here can we please keep on topic.
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Post Posted January 31st, 2013, 8:16 am

Back on topic, the changes to the design will be pushed this afternoon (Pacific Time). I think we will also update the screenshot Frank Lion mentioned. Other issues should be filed as separate bugs. I recommend that you CC Amy and me in your bugs.
Jorge Villalobos
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LoudNoise
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Post Posted February 1st, 2013, 1:45 am

jorgev wrote: I think we will also update the screenshot Frank Lion mentioned.


:) You might want to do that.
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