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Another default theme coming

Discuss application theming and theme development.
Zulithe

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Post Posted June 5th, 2004, 9:54 pm

I like the new icons but not as much as Qute. I think that to call this new set of icons awful is pretty cruel especially since they look just as good as those used in the most popular third-party themes. I will withhold my final review until I see the theme in-full (and according to bonsai that shouldn't be much longer!)

Sorry Arvid ... I hope you won't be discouraged from continuing work on your Qute themes (as well as other themes) for Firefox in the future if Ben & the other Moz devs decide to go with Winstripe.

Gobd
 
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Post Posted June 5th, 2004, 10:17 pm

Where can I download Qute in preparation for these new icons coming out? I'd really like to stick to Qute since I think it looks a heck of a lot better than those others and it's what I'm used to already. I couldn't find a download anywhere :( If you know of one tell me please.

kchikin
 
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Post Posted June 5th, 2004, 11:08 pm

I just don't personally get why people freak out so often when it comes to changing a stinking icon or skin. There are many great options available and you can change them all at will. Personally I like Noia 2.0 Extreme. Qute is nice enough. I don't much care for that Mac OS look. But whatever happens... I'll be using Noia. Just my $.02.

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Post Posted June 5th, 2004, 11:11 pm

Looking at the first post by Arvid, here is an analysis:
Arvid Axelsson wrote:An e-mail from Ben and my reply:
From the looks of this it seems that this was the ONLY email Arvid received after the Firefox team(denoted as the "Team" from here on) worked out some solutions to their "issues". The following line suggests that Arvid <i>might</i> have shown some reservations to make the Qute theme freely available according to the MPL.
As a result we've decided to pursue a new path for the Firefox browser that we distribute, which involves replacing Qute with a <u>free</u> alternative developed by Kevin Gerich and Stephen Horlander as a Windows variant of Pinstripe.
But as you can see from Arvid's reply that he was willing to change his terms to license to whatever was required by the Team, this further consolidates the hypothesis that there was no(or nil) communication between him and the Team.

Taking into consideration that the Qute theme has been the default one for a long time now, and has been liked by most of the users, I think the Firefox team should have communicated with Arvid in a professional manner. Just chipping out the Qute theme by assuming that it won't be made available on the terms they want is childish behaviour on the part of the Team. It was fine that Firefox0.8 release date was delayed due to the branding problem, and not many people/users knew the real reason before the release. But the theme problem doesn't seem to be that serious when the author says that he is willing to make it available in the required terms.

If the new theme does really look like the image shown earlier in the thread, it just looks like Kevin and Stephen might have just "reinvented" the wheel. Some users thought that the exact buttons of Pinstrip theme might be used in Windows, but it is obvious that they don't fit in. The cosmetics used for Pinstrip(for Mac) are just not right to blend in with Windows. And the other windows Pinstripe image shown(assuming this is going to be THE one) does not show much ingenuity and craftsmanship in the design and idea. Had it be better appealing, more professional and capable of being called "a work of art", I would have loved to have it as a default theme. But I think it does need a lot of work to make it a good candidate for default theme in the eyes of general user.

I myself didn't like the old Qute theme that much, but I would say that the latest additions are worthy of praise. Arvid seems to have improved over time....er and so has Firefox/bird also. Hence, Arvid should have been given chance to express his views on this too. Yes he doesnot own Mozilla, but as being a recognised author of the default theme, he must be allowed to clearly state his position so that there is no misunderstanding between him and the Team. (Misunderstanding......yes, the posting of the discussion indicates a misunderstanding!!).

Well those were my views. Still I'm happy that I still have the option to use the theme I like. I hope that this option is not taken away from the users in near future by the Team [-o< or I will have to go back to using Lynx :biggrin:

bengoodger

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Post Posted June 5th, 2004, 11:21 pm

Dear Arvid,

As I stated in my original email, we do very much like Qute, and have very much appreciated your work on it.

When I sent out my email about theme licensing to you Kevin Gerich and Stephen Horlander ("Graphics and Licensing, and 'Source Material'" - dated December 9, 2003), you indicated that you were not comfortable with allowing us and others to make modifications and create derivative works, which is a critical piece of the Mozilla open-source nature. We were forced to look for other options.

We've since developed a theme that provides us, in addition to better licensing, with an appearance that is more uniform across platforms (though not identical, to respect platform UI tendencies).

I hope you understand that I, personally, am reluctant to continue a close working relationship with someone who posts our private email in a public forum without consulting me. I am replying here since you have brought this discussion here, so that the forum community can see my response.

Regards,

-Ben Goodger

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Post Posted June 5th, 2004, 11:33 pm

And to everyone else:

"Winstripe" is a new variant of Pinstripe taking the "content" of the acclaimed Pinstripe theme and mapping it to the Luna widget set and Windows XP color palettes. Congratulations to Stephen Horlander and Kevin Gerich for their effort so far.

Winstripe is a work in progress. You are seeing it in an intermediate state that Kevin and Stephen do not usually allow their work to be released in. They have put in a tremendous amount of hard work to get a preliminary version together that we can use for 0.9. I expect there will be additions, changes and polish before 1.0.

We hope to get a version for GNOME made at some point using elements of the default GNOME/Metacity/GTK configuration in the not-too-distant-future.

We understand that theme is a subjective matter, and that not everyone will think this is an improvement. We are looking for helpful critique, so please keep feedback constructive. For those that still don't like the new theme, we hope Arvid will make his theme available as a standalone download - after all, that's why we have the theme system. Everyone's taste is different.

valkyre

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Post Posted June 5th, 2004, 11:48 pm

I don't like the pseudo-pinstripe theme, I perfer the actual pinstripe theme. But it's still being developed, so I can't really offer any real input.
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Mat
 
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Post Posted June 5th, 2004, 11:54 pm

ok, maybe i am the only one, but i really dont like Pinstripe. it looks way to boring. (i personally prefer Safari on my Mac)
And i dont think that something like Pinstripe works on a non-Mac Platform.

But since i havent seen Winstripe it may (or may not) look better than Qute. (Pinstripe doesnt IMO)

Anyway: i'd prefer it if such radical changes arent first shown in the 0.9 Build, but in the nightlies. So other people have a chance to look at those changes before they are released.
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chapas

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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 12:03 am

Judging for the picture, this new theme doesn't look good. It's not slick as Qute is. It makes Fx look old and rudimentary. Ben, I understand that you had problems with Arvid about Qute's license, etc, but remember Fx's art is not open, either. All the people doing custom builds can't use it because it's a registered trademark (IANAL, but you get my point). I've tested various themes, but Qute is just slicker than any other. Maybe if Firefox's art were free too, Arvid wouldn't have had a problem either. Hope I made my point clear. We are all here for Firefox. Just my 2 cents.

rajivvarma

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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 12:08 am

Does anyone know where I can find Qute as a file so that, in the future, I can use Qute as a theme?
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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 12:10 am

As much as I hate to see Qute replaced as the default theme I also think that publishing private e-mail is very wrong.
That is, to put it shortly, something you almost never do or should do.

E-mail and IM messages are intended to be private (unless said otherwise) and personally I have one simple rule when people
do this and I am (my e-mail) is involved - I never reply to them in the future. In my mind this is a serious violation of the net-etiquette.

Having said that I hope that the Qute theme will be available in the future since it is one of the best themes there is.

What makes me wonder is why this could not have been sorted out in a more professional way?

From the look of it Arvid got the information after the decission was made.
Last edited by Dunderklumpen on June 6th, 2004, 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

jedbro

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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 12:13 am

What a bunch of #@^*%$#@$.

This really pisses me off.
Fact: Arvid was wrong to have posted your "private" e-mail without consulting with you first, he's young, and perhaps didn't think it would be a problem in an OS project.

Fact: Since Arvid has put in hundreds of hours into Qute for Firefox and Thunderbird out of his own free time, it was EXTREMLY UNPROFESIONAL how this was handled. Out of respect, Ben and the Identity team should have contacted Arvid and had multiple discussions about licensing and ideas for a NEW theme post Deceber 9th, 2003.

Fact: A lot of us here (the majority perhaps) think the "new theme" is much inferior to QUTE's standards and a very bad move for pushing Firefox on windows.

Fact: This definitally should have been done in a more OPEN discussion where other profesional artists could have commented.

Ben is one awesome guy and has earned all of my greatest respect for all he's done with Firefox. But this was handled very poorly and is a real turn-off for me.

I really hope issues like this are handled in a friendlier and more open way in the future.

Just my 2 cents
-Jed

cheeaun

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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 12:13 am

neoufo51 wrote:Image
Wow, this looks uh.. like the old-fashioned pixel art with vibrant colors. I could see there's a blend of Mac's icon color palette, a bit of Windows XP's color pallete (one of the icon looks like Windows XP Luna window and tabs) and a bit of Qute's color palette (the documents have gradients similar with Qute's). All icons are in 2D form, which is good, though some of you might disagree with me. I just wonder how do these icons look like in small sizes? or are these the small sizes?
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scratch

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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 12:22 am

am I the only one who loves the new theme? I think it looks like a wonderful mix of Luna, Aqua, and BlueCurve. In fact, I think these buttons could work very well on all three platforms. is there a new throbber too?

jedbro

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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 12:24 am

kchikin wrote:I just don't personally get why people freak out so often when it comes to changing a stinking icon or skin. There are many great options available and you can change them all at will. Personally I like Noia 2.0 Extreme. Qute is nice enough. I don't much care for that Mac OS look. But whatever happens... I'll be using Noia. Just my $.02.

True, but first impressions stick. And the majority of people who try out Firefox don't know about themes or can't be bothered to look for a new one.

I've had my whole family and girlfiend on Firefox for 2 years now (formerly pheonix/firebid) and everytime they launch my profile and see another theme other than qute, they always ask me to get back their "Firefox" and ask what that terrible browser I am using is.

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