Another default theme coming

wget · Post by **wget** » June 6th, 2004, 9:56 am

MORA wrote:This is not going to win over IE users, in my opinion. Definitely not an improvement.

[img http://kmgerich.com/archive/images/wins ... ogress.png]

Thank god, this isn't nearly as disastrous as the stand-alone icons posted earlier in this thread would let you believe. That said, I think this is a step in the wrong direction. Parity across the different operating systems is a bad idea that'll only confuse new users.

Thumper's Evil Twin · Post by **Thumper's Evil Twin** » June 6th, 2004, 9:58 am

jedbro wrote:Out of respect, Ben and the Identity team should have contacted Arvid and had multiple discussions about licensing and ideas for a NEW theme post Deceber 9th, 2003.

Why? In the past Arvid has blocked changes to Qute. When asked if he would open Qute he said no. No contracts were broken. If Arvid wasn't willing to relicense Qute I don't see why he would be willing to negotiate new terms on a new theme short of being paid for it.

A lot of us here (the majority perhaps) think the "new theme" is much inferior to QUTE's standards and a very bad move for pushing Firefox on windows.

I don't. It'll look a lot better at 16x16 than either Qute or Pinstripe and the license will allow me to make a 16x16 theme and release it without begging permission. Heck, with any luck we'll finally get correct Windows icon sizes (16x16 and 32x32) because the theme will just be another thing to file bugs on.

- Chris

CeleronXL · Post by **CeleronXL** » June 6th, 2004, 10:03 am

robdumas wrote:That's the great thing about Mozilla; we (the users) can really shape its direction.

Har har *knee slap* good one.

esavior · Post by **esavior** » June 6th, 2004, 10:06 am

"I'm not quite sure how many times I need to explain this, maybe I should stick it in a FAQ or something, but Firefox is not a community driven project."
-Ben

I dont think it matters what we say or think, and from the looks of it, the users arent the only ones kepted in the dark. I find it refreshing that the people who contribute hours of work to the project are also kepted out of the loop, but of course misery loves company

I guess I am not saying anything new by saying I prefer the Qute theme over the new one. Anyone taking bets on if ben is even reading this thread anymore? Oh and for avrid I posted this in a thread awhile back but I thought it might help you too I even added a special line just for you! I find if you say this every morning it helps make things not feel so bleak...

The people I convert does not matter
The bugs I submit do not matter
The help I give to new users does not matter
The emails I send to page authors about display issues do not matter
The button I place on my webpage does not matter
The daily testing I do of new builds does not matter
The hours I spent working on a theme for firefox does not matter
Any opinions I have do not matter
I am a JUST one of two million users
I do not matter.

iamnotniles · Post by **iamnotniles** » June 6th, 2004, 10:11 am

MORA wrote:Here is a complete screenshot of the new theme. This is not going to win over IE users, in my opinion. Definitely not an improvement.

although that looks nicer the icons simply do not fit in with XP whereas Qute fits in perfectly.

gumpish wrote:The real problem with this being brought out into the light is that now the Mozilla team can't back down from their unilateral decision, otherwise they'll lose face and the community will be more inclined challenge them over other "executive decisions" made in the future.

They would rather fall on their own sword at this point and stick Fx with an inferior default theme, far less capable of winning IE converts, than give any indication that their "executive decisions" are anything less than final.

remember when "Mozilla Firebird" was removed from the titlebar on Windows? They did a u-turn then.

dunda · Post by **dunda** » June 6th, 2004, 10:15 am

"I'm not quite sure how many times I need to explain this, maybe I should stick it in a FAQ or something, but Firefox is not a community driven project."
-Ben

That is just offensive.

It is totally community driven. I have spent a lot of time recommending and advising people to use firefox (even through times when I felt slightly embarrassed that the name suddenly changed), without the growing userbase the things that make FF great (e.g extensions and themes) would have never happened. Who wants to work on a browser that nobody uses?

Well I take heart in that what happened to XFree86, look at the amazing speed with which the linux community has dropped it like the liability it was and taken up the forked alternatives.

There is a parallel here, the XFree86 team thought they were the "be all" and "end all" of the project too.

CeleronXL · Post by **CeleronXL** » June 6th, 2004, 10:22 am

I would entirely support a code fork to a group of people with more of a community driven solution as well. Or rather, a group of people who acknowledge that it has always been a community driven solution, as opposed to the current organization that refuses to admit it.

Without the community, Firefox would be nothing, Ben Goodger would be a nobody, and we would all be using Opera.

digiboy · Post by **digiboy** » June 6th, 2004, 10:25 am

"Winstripe" looks nice from what I can see so far and, in my opinion, will be a far more attractive default skin for users coming from Internet Explorer. Simple, clean, well-sized and a nice bright palette.

Firefox has a history of chop and change. It's the main thing that has allowed it to become as good as it is.

All in all, this seems like the right decision to me.

clickwir · Post by **clickwir** » June 6th, 2004, 10:26 am

I will join with the groups in saying stay with the current 0.8 theme. It fits and works well with Windows and Linux. I use both and it works perfect for both.

If there is a switch to a theme the is ala OS X, that will be the first thing to go if I upgrade to 0.9 or 1.

I also feel that it would be a bad PR move to move to a theme so customized that it doesn't look like anything anyone uses on Windows or Linux.

At the very least, give us a choice of themes at install.

If I wanted my applications to look like OSX, I'd run OSX. I stay away from Apple and OSX for that reason and others. I do not like the look of OSX or any OS apple has ever made. Their general theme of OS's just does not go with what I like. Pinstripe will be the first thing to go for me.

wget · Post by **wget** » June 6th, 2004, 10:28 am

Thumper wrote:Why? In the past Arvid has blocked changes to Qute. When asked if he would open Qute he said no. No contracts were broken. If Arvid wasn't willing to relicense Qute I don't see why he would be willing to negotiate new terms on a new theme short of being paid for it.

Got a source for that? I'm not contesting that he didn't say it, I'd just like to read the whole backstory myself.

Thumper wrote:the license will allow me to make a 16x16 theme and release it without begging permission.

Are you talking about the same license that allows people to create derivative works of the Firefox artwork? Oh wait.

People talking about a potential code fork should cool off for a while.

TheOneKEA · Post by **TheOneKEA** » June 6th, 2004, 10:29 am

esavior wrote:"I'm not quite sure how many times I need to explain this, maybe I should stick it in a FAQ or something, but Firefox is not a community driven project."
-Ben

I dont think it matters what we say or think, and from the looks of it, the users arent the only ones kepted in the dark. I find it refreshing that the people who contribute hours of work to the project are also kepted out of the loop, but of course misery loves company I guess I am not saying anything new by saying I prefer the Qute theme over the new one. Anyone taking bets on if ben is even reading this thread anymore? Oh and for avrid I posted this in a thread awhile back but I thought it might help you too I even added a special line just for you! I find if you say this every morning it helps make things not feel so bleak...

The people I convert does not matter
The bugs I submit do not matter
The help I give to new users does not matter
The emails I send to page authors about display issues do not matter
The button I place on my webpage does not matter
The daily testing I do of new builds does not matter
The hours I spent working on a theme for firefox does not matter
Any opinions I have do not matter
I am a JUST one of two million users
I do not matter.

*shakes head*

esavior, I think your words are frightening.

Thumper's Evil Twin · Post by **Thumper's Evil Twin** » June 6th, 2004, 10:31 am

I don't believe the theme licensing is being changed to allow more community participation and there's a ten-page thread on how Ben is restricting development. You people are nuts.

- Chris

gumpish · Post by **gumpish** » June 6th, 2004, 10:33 am

/me runs off to secure the trademark on FireFork

bangbang023 · Post by **bangbang023** » June 6th, 2004, 10:35 am

What the hell is with all the bashing of Ben? It's just pathetic how one move, a simple change of the default theme, causes you all to freak out. So, yes, the theme doesn't look too great, but to continue this bashing of Ben is just ridiculuous and outright wrong. Just a few weeks ago everyone was talking about the new extension manager he implemented and now this huge turn around? Give me a break.

adam_tomlinson · Post by **adam_tomlinson** » June 6th, 2004, 10:37 am

i dont like it, please change it back

Another default theme coming

Not a good theme for Windows or Linux