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Another default theme coming

Discuss application theming and theme development.
divertom15
 
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 7:38 pm

wow i just registered seconds ago to post that this new default theme looks like crap. Im a firefox fanboy but hey this has to be said. Sorry go back to the old 8 theme. the new one sucks a hard one real bad :(

Äkiidoll

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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 7:46 pm

Is is gonna debut in 0.9? Any screen shots of it in the browser
itself? I like the default one now with the cleaner .ico thats
used, compared to 0.7 it looks alot fresher and polished.
A prisoner of Christ Jesus, by His stripes I was healed

ataferner
 
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 7:56 pm

I really don't have anything new to add to this discussion. But I would like to voice my view that from what has been posted here by Ben and Arvid I belive there could have been better communication between them before making a decision to go with a new theme. I think both parties handled this situation not as well as it could have been handled and it is sad that the result is that we get what I preceive to be a far inferior default theme :( Based on my experience with mozilla/firebird in the past, this decision has already been made and isn't going to be reversed. At least not immediately. Maybe they'll change their minds later down the road, like they eventually conceded to change Firebird to Firefox.
tgnb

steeler_fan

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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 8:03 pm

fishbert wrote:censorship = bad

Suspending accounts (for however long) is not something I'd ever be in favor of. People who post inflamatory, useless, and/or just plain mean remarks display their own ignorance and immaturity. Silencing them by suspending their accounts, does nothing but add a value to their childish behavior. Just ignore those with whom you so greatly disagree with, anything more is just as childish.


kerz pays the bills. If he wants to suspend us all, he can, and there is nothing we can do about it. Nobody made you (not you specifically ;) ) come to mozillaZine and start annoying people.

Have you read the Rules? Start where I linked and read down.

Moparx

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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 8:06 pm

personally i love the new theme... it looks much sleeker to me
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:48.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/48.0

Piel

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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 8:12 pm

wget wrote:
Piel wrote:Is there a way we can create a petition of some sort to encourage Arvid to continue developing his theme?

Arvid isn't stopping development on the theme. You can save your useless internet petition for another day.
Image


wow - are you always this pleasant or did I get the extra special touch?

shill

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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 8:26 pm

rgw wrote:You know, Horlander and crew are good artists...they'll get it right eventually. They just need to read up on how to make 'XP-ish' icons and they'll be fine. I just hate that licensing issues led to a 'long walk off a short bridge' for Qute. Especially since Qute was already there in terms of the native look. There is a lot of work left before winstripe will approach Qute's level of excellence, but if any one can do it...it is those guys.

=D> =D> =D>

Hooded One

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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 8:42 pm

Ok, after asking a few people who've never seen Fire* before, the new theme doesn't appear to be as hideous to new users. I suppose with some work it'll be a good theme, but those who are nostalgic for Qute are going to automatically not like it. I can live with that.

BUT... the way this was handled still sucks. Better communication should have been made with Arvid months ago, and the change should have been publicized earlier so extension developers and the like could include semi-matching icons.

Still, will everybody coming in to jump on the "OMFG U SUK" bandwagon just grow up? Whining and moaning like a two-year-old doesn't help your case. At the very least, stop wasting bandwidth so avatars can come back. I can't tell anybody's posts apart.
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041107 Firefox/1.0
SuSE Linux 9.2, Kernel 2.6.8, KDE 3.3.2

RP Novice
 
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 8:44 pm

I cannot believe we are so preoccupied with how it looks, even though it is an important aspect to marketing (and I will admit that I'm using Qute on both Fx and Tb).

What matters most is the underlying coding underneath the skins. Firefox/Firebird/Phoenix/Insert Mozilla Marketing Name Here has much more important qualities than just looking nice... It's the browsing technology/quality that will count in the long run... Personally, I would regard the Modern Mozilla/Netscape look to be abominable compared to both Qute and Winstripe.... Designing an image for to market a product takes time.... Winstripe just needs time for development....

Don't treat this like this is the end of the world.... it's only a new skin...gosh...
Still much of a novice....

shadytrees
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 8:49 pm

Most beautiful drop-markers I've ever seen.

Aren't they from Orbit?
Why couldn't Winstripe wait until 1.0 Beta for example?

1) That winstripe shouldn't be blamed, it's still in alpha. But, why the heck make it default now, instead of wait until it is.

Negotiations broke down too fast and too emotional?
The problem i see with doing this for "brand identity" is that it's happening so late in development.

It's not late in development. pre-1.0, from the Firefox devs' standpoint, is up for any changes they want to make. After 1.0, changes of this proportion won't be occurring as much or at all.
Is there a way we can create a petition of some sort to encourage Arvid to continue developing his theme?

He already is.
http://quadrone.org/projects/mozilla/browser/
i mean it's just an icon set for a web browser, and what's better than having the great one you created yourself in the best browser out there? obviously alot of people would love to see that happen so i don't see what Arvid can gain by not licensing it....come on Arvid we all love your work!

It's a protection thing and it helps maintain a clear image for a certain theme (Qute is pretty well-known in theme circles; myIE2, Opera, etc. all have a Qute theme that somebody ported), which is good if you ever want to use it commercially and etc.
People who post inflamatory, useless, and/or just plain mean remarks display their own ignorance and immaturity. Silencing them by suspending their accounts, does nothing but add a value to their childish behavior. Just ignore those with whom you so greatly disagree with, anything more is just as childish.

That philosophy would work except there's always going to be a response to anything. Ignoring trolls completely, from what I've seen, has never been executed properly.
Surely 1.0 Beta is exactly the wrong time to drop something like this in.

That'd give it too little time for bugs to be filed. Best to drop it in before you start releasing alphas, betas, release candidates, etc. that people are more likely going to try.
Is is gonna debut in 0.9? Any screen shots of it in the browser itself?

Yes, there's some linked from this thread and the official one:
http://kmgerich.com/archive/images/wins ... ogress.png

tmeader
 
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 8:52 pm

Ben's recently updated his blog, touching on this thread. He notes that the situation is not as cut and dried as the two emails that have been shown on here would lead one to believe. I can definitely believe that. In addition, his point about good software not being completely designed by committee is another great one. Everyone's opinion is helpful, to a point, but at some time a leader must take control and steer a project to completion. Pleasing everyone will ALWAYS be impossible, no matter what the topic or feature.

Interesting point made above... that those initially viewing Firefox with Winstripe are not going to be anywhere near as "horrified" as those that have seen/used Qute. I couldn't agree more. As long as the theme looks professional (which Winstripe isn't QUITE at yet... but I have no doubts soon will be), and is not outright offensive, people will have no troubles with it.

amano

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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 8:54 pm

djst wrote:It would be very interesting to know why it had to go in so soon? We have a much more finished theme already available in Qute, which has undergone countless of improvements since Firefox 0.8. Why couldn't Winstripe wait until 1.0 Beta for example?


I think, that is the most urgent question.

You shipped Firebird/Fox with Qute for so many releases. Why is there the big rush to a get a new theme that is (as admitted between the lines) in an early state. I even think that the magic 1.0 release of software products is highly overestimated. It is just a number. Not a guarantee of perfect software. There is no need to rush for 1.0, no need to rush for any milestone.

If it would be a software patch, it wouldn't get checked in until it is ready.

I would prefer keeping Qute as the default theme at least until Winstripe is competitive in an objective way. Any rush will do harm.

esavior

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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 9:04 pm

I read through bens post, and I would only like to comment on one point he made
ben wrote:Good software development is not done by committee...

I completely agree with this point because software that is managed by a group of people ALWAYS is bad and never has any market share. The best example I can give us, is Apache. Apache is the worst webserver that was ever made, and I bet if you look at market share IIS is much higher. Here is a direct quote from apache's webpage
The Apache projects are managed using a collaborative, consensus-based process. We do not have a hierarchical structure. Rather, different groups of contributors have different rights and responsibilities in the organization. The Foundation is a meritocracy where these rights and responsibilities follow from the skills and contributions of participants.

as you can see a group of people manage apache, probably this explains why its such a bad server.

paulm
 
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 9:08 pm

Hooded One wrote:BUT... the way this was handled still sucks. Better communication should have been made with Arvid months ago, and the change should have been publicized earlier so extension developers and the like could include semi-matching icons.

We don't really know what communication went on with Arvid so who are any of us to judge?
From the <b>one</b> (to my knowledge) email we have seen it seems this was discussed in some fashion as much as 6 months ago and a mutually satisfactory position wasn't reached.

It isn't unreasonable for them to have waited until they had something to show before announcing the new theme otherwise it would just have been vapour. Until the theme fleshes out a bit the extension developers wouldn't have anything to target anyway.

kerz
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 9:08 pm

Alright, we're done here. Three days of bitching is enough. There is another thread for comments on winstripe, we're done arguing about qute.

jason

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