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Discussion For WebMedia Video Format(WebM) in Minefield

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Omega X

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Post Posted May 19th, 2010, 4:28 pm

I've created this thread in the hopes that it captures most of the discussion that will brew up for this new Video Format in Minefield.

Overview:

WebMedia or WebM for short is a new Video Codec released freely by Google. The Codec is based on On2's Vp8 Video Codec. On2 was acquired by Google earlier this year.

File Extension: <filename>.WebM or <filename>.webm

MIME Type: video/webm Codec Tag: vorbis,vp8 (or: vp8, vorbis)

Codec Structure:

- modified Matroska Container.
- Audio is provided by Vorbis. (Same as Theora.)
- Video is provided by VP8.

Supporters: Google, Mozilla, Opera, Microsoft(with a catch), Adobe(With Flash), Xiph.Org Foundation, AMD, ARM, Brightcove, Broadcom, Collabora, Digital Rapids, Encoding.com, Grab Networks, iLinc, INLET, Kaltura, Logitech, MIPS, Nvidia, Ooyala, Qualcomm, Skype, Sorenson, Telestream, Texas Instruments, Verisilicon, ViewCast, Wildform, HeyWatch, Miro, VLC.

Browsers with support:
Mozilla Developer Preview, Opera Beta, Chromium(Starting May 24th)

WebMedia Website: http://www.webmproject.org/

How to test:
Follow the instructions here: http://www.webmproject.org/users/

Bugzilla Bugs:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=566243
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=559052


More Information:
http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/05/firefo ... -and-webm/
http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/oper ... ebm-video/
Last edited by Omega X on May 25th, 2010, 2:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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_Alexander

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Post Posted May 19th, 2010, 5:05 pm

Seems like a marketing scheme to force people to upgrade to new hardware (Notice Nvidia and AMD support even though neither one atm supports it).
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Omega X

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Post Posted May 19th, 2010, 5:07 pm

Both Nvidia and AMD makes Display Drivers to tap into video hardware.

Flash 10.1 didn't have Day 1 support from them either. But it eventually came through Driver updates.
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_Alexander

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Post Posted May 19th, 2010, 5:12 pm

Omega X wrote:Both Nvidia and AMD makes Display Drivers to tap into video hardware.

Flash 10.1 didn't have Day 1 support from them either. But it eventually came through Driver updates.


That is mostly to support Blu-Ray, h264.

I am saying that one would need new a graphic card that supports this.
By pushing this unto the web, they are trying to simply get us to buy new hardware - that or have no access to video.
Marketing scheme 101

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Omega X

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Post Posted May 19th, 2010, 5:17 pm

Offloading sequential images to the GPU works the same regardless of the codec. Nvidia could easily create a software extension to offload both the video and processing without codec support baked in the chip. The same goes for AMD. GPUs are very versatile these days.
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_Alexander

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Post Posted May 19th, 2010, 5:42 pm

Omega X wrote:Offloading sequential images to the GPU works the same regardless of the codec. Nvidia could easily create a software extension to offload both the video and processing without codec support baked in the chip. The same goes for AMD. GPUs are very versatile these days.


Nonetheless it is wasted doubled effort. Take for example Linux, it is a great case of doubled/tripled effort: multiple package formats, multiple sound systems, etc.

There is a de-facto god-tier codec out there, problem being no one wants to pay.
So discarding performance and compression abilities, there are already other codecs out there that can fit the task.

Why not use an already developed codec? In a few or so years, hardware acceleration will appear for it and all the devices will be able to process it.
It will be quicker that way (codec won't be new / foreign) - and old devices will be able to play it.
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Omega X

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Post Posted May 19th, 2010, 6:03 pm

Nonetheless, a viable alternative is here to stay now. Furthermore, I hear that its comparable to the "de-facto standard mega ultra gojira whatever" buzz term is being used these days.

All of this reminds me of IE6 when it used to be the "de-facto standard" and there was all of this rage against anything non IE and W3C because it wanted everything to use open web standards. Now IE development plays to the tune of HTML5, a W3C open standard.
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sabret00the

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Post Posted May 19th, 2010, 6:10 pm

Is this in the nightlies yet?

Omega X

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Post Posted May 19th, 2010, 6:14 pm

Not yet. The patches have to be merged into the trunk.

A build is available here OR in the link above from the WebM website: http://nightly.mozilla.org/webm/
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_Alexander

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Post Posted May 19th, 2010, 6:48 pm

Here is a summary of everything I could continue talking about,

Further confusion: just when everyone thought one thing, this pops up. With all the players, browser variations of HTML5 video, addons, codec packs, codecs, and containers -> total mess.
Redundancy: there are plenty of formats as is - xvid could be used for HD for example.
Incompatibility: nothing supports it at the moment. I don't think anything in my household would be able to run this, whereas there are two computers that can run HD perfectly fine.
Performance: legacy acceleration vs. hardware acceleration -> no comparison. Also from my experience legacy generates more heat, depletes battery life, and slows down multitasking.
Anti-Unification: I fail to see how Blu-Ray and pirates ain't going to pick this up. So no true cross-platform video standard.


I guess we will have to see what the future brings.
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Omega X

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Post Posted May 19th, 2010, 7:04 pm

That's great. Just so as long as it pertains to WebM Video in Minefield.
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GTK66
 
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Post Posted May 19th, 2010, 7:13 pm

This is just a Video player right and not an entire Browser??

Omega X

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Post Posted May 19th, 2010, 8:59 pm

I hope not.

WebMedia is a video codec standard.

Opera and Mozilla have alpha builds to test WebM playback. Microsoft will support it if the codec is installed onto Windows(DirectShow Filters already exist on the WebM website). Chromium will have support starting May 20th. Adobe will build playback into Flash.
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sabret00the

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Post Posted May 20th, 2010, 3:07 am

I really wanna play with this. Apparently Google have already started encoding video in WebM on Youtube and you can watch vids by appending &webm=1 to searches. But I really don't wanna install another build of Firefox.

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Post Posted May 20th, 2010, 3:37 am

I tested this a bit on YouTube HD videos. It works well, only switching to Full screen is slow and annoying. Overall Flash still works better; it feels smoother and quality is equal from what I could see.
Nonetheless it is a good change, because they will probably add hardware acceleration, plus the fact that it is now played by browser means that more customization is possible. Will see how this evolves.

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