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UI discussion for Firefox 4.0b7

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Erunno

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Post Posted November 13th, 2010, 10:58 am

Tesla74 wrote:You can also voice your opinion at the Firefox 4 Beta Forum. I have and my request is now on the first page.

Bring back the status bar
https://firefox.uservoice.com/forums/57 ... status-bar


I don't want necessarily the old status bar back as long as Mozilla can come up with an improved design. My problem is that the current implementation is simply asinine. If they are so intent on removing the status bar and have no better ideas then they should bite the bullet and adapt Chrome's solution for link targets outright. Google's solution is imo vastly superior to the current cluster**** of a location bar.
Last edited by LoudNoise on November 13th, 2010, 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Language edit
The previous signature has been removed again. Enjoy your month off, Erunno.

andy06
 
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Post Posted November 13th, 2010, 3:42 pm

In Firefox 3.6, there were 2 new tab buttons (one in the customize palette for the toolbars and another for the tab bar). Has one of them been eliminated in 4.0? b7 shows me just the one that I can now place anywhere (but not 2 places at once)?

Thanks

andy06
 
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Post Posted November 13th, 2010, 5:16 pm

Re: Link target discussion

Is it possible to still file a bug to have the preview always start from the same position (and to the left of where it usually does) so that there is consistency in display location and users know where to look. Also it should be towards the left rather than right so that more of the target link can be displayed (the current page address is less important in this context)

Other suggestions may not be relevant until Firefox.next but this modification could still get through before 4.0 final.

malliz
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Post Posted November 13th, 2010, 5:22 pm

From memory there may already be a bug or bugs about this.
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Bluefang

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Post Posted November 13th, 2010, 7:21 pm

andy06 wrote:In Firefox 3.6, there were 2 new tab buttons (one in the customize palette for the toolbars and another for the tab bar). Has one of them been eliminated in 4.0? b7 shows me just the one that I can now place anywhere (but not 2 places at once)?

IMHO having 2 buttons that do the same thing is redundant. IIRC, the reason there were 2 buttons was because, at one point, the one of the tab bar could not be moved. Now that it is customizable, there's no point in keeping both of them around.

andy06 wrote:Is it possible to still file a bug to have the preview always start from the same position (and to the left of where it usually does) so that there is consistency in display location and users know where to look.

There is already a bug filed on this.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=596587

Do not post in the bug without reading this.
There have always been ghosts in the machine... random segments of code that have grouped together to form unexpected protocols. Unanticipated, these free radicals engender questions of free will, creativity, and even the nature of what we might call the soul...

Krueger_Industrial

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Post Posted November 14th, 2010, 12:14 am

Mattus wrote:There is always vocal opposition to any change in software UI design. Look at the awesome bar, look at tabbed browsing, look at Windows Aero.

Don't like tabs? Don't use them. My wife never has more than one tab open at a time. Works just fine for her. Don't like Aero? You can turn it off. Tabbed browsing and Aero are examples of changes that you might not like but you can ignore them because they don't really affect how you do things.

Yes people complain about change, but the real issue is not change. The real issue is making random pointless changes that make Firefox LESS useful.

I used to be able to click at the end of the URL Bar and drop down a list of all the urls I had recently typed in. This was very useful for going back to a website where I had manually typed in the url and didn't bookmark it. Then the "Awesome Bar" comes along and turns my URL bar into the "Useless Bar". Now my url bar drops down a list of random urls that have absolutely no relevance to anything, and the url that I manually typed in yesterday isn't in that list of random urls, so now my only choice is to dig through History and see if I can find the url I'm looking for.
](*,)

Same with the Status Bar. Another feature that provided important and useful information -- gone for no real reason other than "we decided to change it". Yes, the Awful Bar and the Status Bar can be fixed with extensions. But having functionality removed and having to get it back by using extensions -- which stop working every time a new version of FF is released and then you have to hope the author of the extension releases a new compatible version -- is pretty ridiculous.

Beginning with FF 4 beta 6 all the menus and toolbars were changed to a smaller font. After spending a lot of time searching, i was finally able to figure out how to modify my userchrome.css file to get things back to a font that my tired old eyes can handle. WTF. Seriously. WTF.

I have been using Firefox since version 0.7 but I'm getting more and more frustrated. Every new version breaks existing themes and extensions, useful features are eliminated or made less useful, and lots of pointless changes that make you say WTF!!

Rocketman

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Post Posted November 14th, 2010, 9:51 am

Krueger_Industrial wrote: WTF. Seriously. WTF.

I have been using Firefox since version 0.7 but I'm getting more and more frustrated. ... useful features are eliminated or made less useful, and lots of pointless changes that make you say WTF!!


My point exactly.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Ben Franklin

patrickjdempsey

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Post Posted November 14th, 2010, 6:50 pm

Krueger_Industrial wrote:I used to be able to click at the end of the URL Bar and drop down a list of all the urls I had recently typed in.


I have mine set for "show bookmarks" and when I click the dropmarker without typing anything in it shows my most recently used bookmarked sites. It doesn't seem to work properly when showing history entries as well, but it's much better now with that option than when 3.0 first came out.

Krueger_Industrial wrote:Same with the Status Bar. Another feature that provided important and useful information -- gone for no real reason other than "we decided to change it".


Restating the same thing over and over again will not make it more true, neither will ignoring the responses:
viewtopic.php?p=10116737#p10116737
viewtopic.php?p=10116875#p10116875
viewtopic.php?p=10117451#p10117451

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that it's just a needless change. I personally think hiding the page title when the Firefox menu button is show is needless and silly, but other people seem to love it.

Krueger_Industrial wrote:Beginning with FF 4 beta 6 all the menus and toolbars were changed to a smaller font.


This is probably a problem specific to switching to using DirectWrite for font rendering as there are associated problems in actual page rendering. I don't see this problem on XP or 2000. I'm sure the Mozilla devs are saying WTF about this as well.

Krueger_Industrial wrote: Every new version breaks existing themes and extensions, useful features are eliminated or made less useful


One of the downsides to having and extremely robust addon system is that the most powerful addons do not fare well on upgrades. This is exactly why Mozilla developed Personas and the JetPack SDK, and why ShareBird developed his lightweight themes which allow us to only change button graphics so we can make themes compatible from ancient versions through future versions. It hasn't become as popular as it should, but it would be nice to see more of these.
Tip of the day: If it has "toolbar" in the name, it's crap.
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Rodze
 
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Post Posted November 14th, 2010, 7:51 pm

The page title has only been removed/hidden for app tabs and only if you opt to make a tab such.

Status text and download information have been completely removed on the default configuration.

patrickjdempsey

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Post Posted November 14th, 2010, 8:05 pm

Page title has been removed from the titlebar when the menu button is displayed. Tab titles are extremely truncated versions of the page title.
Tip of the day: If it has "toolbar" in the name, it's crap.
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imom
 
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Post Posted November 18th, 2010, 7:00 pm

After the initial shock of the awful default GUI etc, I am mostly getting settled into 4b7 (OSX 10.6.5) but with some annoying issues.

1. The tool buttons are not consistent between pages. For example, the reload button appears in 2 different ways:

Image

2. When I go to the home page, the URL is indicated as "about:home" rather than the actual URL of the homepage.

3. The feedback button keeps re-appearing after removing it many times

4. The 'status text' tool did not 'stick'. Had to re-add it (yes, I am using Status-4-Evar)

5. For the first time my laptop fans are working hard and making a lot of noise. This began as soon as I started 4b7. Strange, the CPU usage is around 60% (on a dual core machine).

6. Why would anyone remove a padlock from secure pages????? Almost every guide to safe online banking etc tells users to look out for the padlock. It doesn't bother me, but I bet it will concern a lot of n00bs.

7. When I select toolbar->customize the reload and stop buttons suddenly appear on the upper toolbar. When I close the customize window, they disappear again!

Bluefang

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Post Posted November 18th, 2010, 7:37 pm

1/3/4. Toolbar buttons/items should not be moving around on their own. If changes you're making are not sticking, you likely have a profile problem.
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Corrupt_localstore.rdf
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Profile_Manager

2. about:home is the URL. It is a page built into Firefox like about:config or about:support. You can still change the home page to be whatever you want in the general preferences.

5. Does this happen in general or, for example, on Flash heavy pages?

6. The padlock is not needed. The page security level is shown in the location bar with the grey, blue, or green identity block.

7. If the toolbar is setup such that the items are in the order [URL Bar][Reload][Stop], then the stop/reload buttons are combined and tacked onto the end of the URL bar.
There have always been ghosts in the machine... random segments of code that have grouped together to form unexpected protocols. Unanticipated, these free radicals engender questions of free will, creativity, and even the nature of what we might call the soul...

imom
 
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Post Posted November 18th, 2010, 8:14 pm

Bluefang wrote:2. about:home is the URL.


I know why this is displayed but it's not a URL, and definitely not the URL of the page I'm looking at.

Bluefang wrote:5. Does this happen in general or, for example, on Flash heavy pages?


I don't have any flash heavy pages open, but I do have quite a few tabs and windows (maybe 30 pages altogether)

Bluefang wrote:6. The padlock is not needed. The page security level is shown in the location bar with the grey, blue, or green identity block.


The padlock IS needed if you want Joe Average to understand when he is on a secure page. Why drop the industry standard? Makes no sense.

Bluefang wrote:7. If the toolbar is setup such that the items are in the order [URL Bar][Reload][Stop], then the stop/reload buttons are combined and tacked onto the end of the URL bar.


Ok, that makes sense now. It was only happening on the page with the combined button showing at the end of the URL bar. So apparently it 'uncombines' when in editing mode. Not immediately obvious, I must say!

As for the possible corrupt profile, I'll keep an eye on it. Seems to be more stable now after a restart. It does amuse me though when someone points to a profile being a problem rather then the Mozilla program using it - surely the profile was corrupted by the application! It seems like a circular argument, or am I missing something?
Last edited by imom on November 18th, 2010, 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rocketman

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Post Posted November 18th, 2010, 8:20 pm

Bluefang wrote:Toolbar buttons/items should not be moving around on their own. If changes you're making are not sticking, you likely have a profile problem.


My toolbar buttons also kept resetting. I just did the localstore.rdf reset so time will tell if it works.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Ben Franklin

Bluefang

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Post Posted November 18th, 2010, 9:13 pm

imom wrote:I know why this is displayed but it's not a URL, and definitely not the URL of the page I'm looking at.

Erm, the default home page is about:home, so unless you've set a custom home page, that is the URL of the page you're looking at.

And, for the record, about:home is a valid URI. Go read RFC 3986

imom wrote:The padlock IS needed if you want Joe Average to understand when he is on a secure page. Why drop the industry standard? Makes no sense.

You should really read this. It was removed for a reason.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=598973#c2

No information was lost, just a recognizable icon of misinformation.

imom wrote:As for the possible corrupt profile, I'll keep an eye on it. Seems to be more stable now after a restart. It does amuse me though when someone points to a profile being a problem rather then the Mozilla program using it - surely the profile was corrupted by the application! It seems like a circular argument, or am I missing something?

A profile can be corrupted a number of ways, and not all of them have something to directly do with Firefox its self. For example the computer/Firefox could crash, corrupting files. A 3rd part program, such as CCleaner, could damage the profile. If you use a profile with both Firefox 3.6 and 4.0 it can get messed up. Add-ons can also potentially damage the profile. Migrating between major Firefox versions (i.e. 3.6 -> 4.0) can also cause unexpected results.

Yes, there could be a bug in Firefox its self that causes profile damage, but more often than not, that is not the case.
There have always been ghosts in the machine... random segments of code that have grouped together to form unexpected protocols. Unanticipated, these free radicals engender questions of free will, creativity, and even the nature of what we might call the soul...

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