Azure Progress

[Theliel]

I don't think Windows will always be the most benefited, according to the Q&A with Joe in the comments. Sounds like it will be the same improvement for everyone across all platforms, which is great to see:

Q: “This API needs to be close enough to Direct2D to be little more than a thin wrapper” – does that mean Windows will always have an advantage over OS X, Linux and Android as Azure on Direct2D will have the least amount of overhead?

Joe: Windows won’t have an advantage, except in that Direct2D already exists and we still have to write the 3D backends. We think the Direct2D API is a good one to emulate when we write our own 2D-on-3D rasterizer.

Im very interested on the second part of azure too (3D backends), especially for linux. Bas and Roc are doing a excellent work with all Direct2D/D3D/OGL stuff, but I dont sure that OGL/D3D can do a better work for content renderer. Anyway, Windows could use (when Azure will be completed) OGL or D3D/D2D, and again (probably) you can obtain a better performance under D3D/D2D. The best part of azure are the all-in-one solution, so any system may benefit from content rendering, not only W7/Vista. And Of course, boost the overall performance

Anyway, we just have to wait/test/help and continue the work of these guys

[Andu]

I'm pretty sure Mozilla will put a considerable bit of effort into the OGL backend since that will also be useful for Fennec. And considering how the mobile market is exploding that sounds like something Mozilla would try to tap into.

[Azn]

Anyway, Windows could use (when Azure will be completed) OGL or D3D/D2D, and again (probably) you can obtain a better performance under D3D/D2D.

The developers state that it was the shoddy quality of the OGL drivers on Windows which made them use D2D/D3D as the primary backend.

[Theliel]

Andu are right about Fennec, and Im sure Mozilla will do a great work on ogl too, but anyway Windows will be the most important platform, at least to short-midle terms (and probably on long terms too). The problem isn't only the poor quality of Ogl Windows driver like Intel (ATI and nVidia support are excellent). Direct2D exist in this moment and work very well for content rendering. Yes, you cant fix D2D bug and you must wait until MS release a new update, and of course its only Windows 7/Vista API, but D2D performance are really good.

IMHO, the question are if Mozilla can make a better job with OGL for content rendering instead D2D (that use D3D anyway in this moment, and im sure that Azure in future will use D3D on Windows Machines). And of course, we could debate again if OpenGL 2.0 would have a better/worse performance than Direct3D 9.x+ (Or maybe Direct3D 10+). The problem are no only Azure Vs D2D performance (that Mozilla could perfectly make a better API for Firefox), but OGL Vs Direct3D Vs Drivers too.

At the moment, the truth are that all Windows 7/Vista users with hardware capable have a great performance under D2D and D3D, And Azure landed its another very interesting boost

[Cru_N_cher]

Finally we gonna see big improvements on all OS not only Vista/7 not yet but hopefully soon it's a pain to see how far behind Firefox currently is in major technology parts vs the competition (especially Multithreading and GPU) , and especial finally getting rid of Cairo and all the problems it brought and still is bringing in Performance wise with layers, still GIF animation is a big problem not to speak about flash and silverlight and when adding IPC to all this it gets even more problematic . Maybe finally Tab Candy (Panorama) can then be useful actually running fully Hardware accelerated also on Pre Vista/7

Though the Big Milestone will be if Electrolysis and Azure then merge together into 1 Build though that will take still some more time (let us hope in Firefox 8 it will happen) that the competition is ahead off currently even Operas OpenGL acceleration works surprisingly good and beats Firefox in their own Demos .

Though i fully agree that on Windows preferring D3D makes more sense and especially is more efficient and also can avoid problems with D3D applications that are running above the firefox Window, you wouldn't believe what for funny effects Operas Browser and Chrome can create with some D3D native applications trying for example to capture the application window (flickering, black screen everything is possible)

[Theliel]

Opera have done a good work too with Ogl (D2D its no avalible for now), but is not all what it says, all depend with test you play on them.

For example, SpeedReading give us a excellent 7 seconds (equal to IE and FF), and tankFish with 2000 fish give us the best result (vs FF and IE) with 58-60fps (47 on FF). But in other tests, Opera fall. On Browser Hunt (IE test too) only reache 15fps Vs 21 on FF and 50fps on IE. FishBowl its another good example, Opera reach 15fps with 1500 fish, 12-13 with 2000. Firefox reach to 40fps with Azure and 1500 fish (30fps for 2000). WebGL performance are poor too, in WebGL field test for example, Opera stuck on 8-9fps (with lots grass), while FF get 42fps and 60fps Chrome . the worse of this Opera build its the text rendering, its very very blurred

Electrolysis will be another great overall performance and security boost for all, but I dont believe Electrolysis will be ready for FF 8 unfortunately, need a lot lot work . At least, TI will be landed soon and azure of course work fine too.

[Cru_N_cher]

Yes but Opera does better on XP then Firefox does currently on XP with 0 acceleration same for Chrome

PS: A easy way to crash Firefox currently open 200 tabs (obviously with content) around (1.2 GB Memory usage, no IPC) and use CTRL+TAB and cycle in a loop through them it's almost guaranteed it will crash, 7 already survives though a lot of cycles
1.6 GB (Private Byte usage) seems to be some magical barrier where the possibility for a crash or cpu utilization loop is pretty high (@ least currently on XP with 3GB available and 5GB ramdisk).

[muhahaa]

What I meant is that Mozilla Central, which doesn't have Azure yet, performs better than the Azure tryserver build.

Ok Sorry, I misunderstand your post. But in this case, you have some problem here. I believe that your azure build (in the test) its a "normal" build without azure. In my test, Azure build work perfectly on all of them (with some graphic issues on asteroids).

You can verify if your build have "Azure" checking gfx.canvas.azure.enabled. If gfx.canvas.azure.enabled its present on about:config, you have a azure build. At the moment, no m-c build have azure on it.

It was an Azure build.

Asteroids benchmark results:

Azure
Benchmark Score: 529
Average FPS: 12

Mozilla Central
Benchmark Score: 577
Average FPS: 13

Are you using some old Intel chipset, like 945GM ?

Radeon HD 4650

[sabret00the]

I'm pretty sure Mozilla will put a considerable bit of effort into the OGL backend since that will also be useful for Fennec. And considering how the mobile market is exploding that sounds like something Mozilla would try to tap into.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=607684

[Edds]

MC - latest nightly
Asteroids
Benchmark Score: 660
Average FPS: 14
Fishbowl
2000 Fish - 1 fps
Paintball
24.29s / 214.89 ppm
SpeedReading
7 seconds
--------------------
MC - latest hourly
Asteroids
Benchmark Score: 1426
Average FPS: 30
Fishbowl
2000 Fish - 26fps
Paintball
12.65s / 417.68 ppm
SpeedReading
6 seconds
--------------------
Chrome 14 dev - hw acc on
Asteroids
Benchmark Score: 2689
Average FPS: 57
Fishbowl
2000 Fish - 15fps
Paintball
15.51s / 336.47 ppm
SpeedReading
8 seconds
--------------------
IE 9
Asteroids
Benchmark Score: 2739
Average FPS: 58
Fishbowl
2000 Fish - 21fps
Paintball
11.34s / 460.48 ppm
SpeedReading
7 seconds

[Cru_N_cher]

This becomes really funny but always @ 1.6 GB Memory usage Firefox 7.0a1 Nightly currently becomes uncontrollable unstable (cpu 1 core utilization spikes for several minutes in that time UI becomes unresponsive, layer acceleration failing on tab change,up to the final crash) going as far as Layer Acceleration scrambling away on tabs with XP 32 (not that any sane person ever gonna reach that Memory usage in Real Life most probably)

PS: Though it's definitely more stable then 5.0 or 6.0 are with this extreme test case

[RyanVM]

PS: A easy way to crash Firefox currently open 200 tabs (obviously with content) around (1.2 GB Memory usage, no IPC) and use CTRL+TAB and cycle in a loop through them it's almost guaranteed it will crash, 7 already survives though a lot of cycles
1.6 GB (Private Byte usage) seems to be some magical barrier where the possibility for a crash or cpu utilization loop is pretty high (@ least currently on XP with 3GB available and 5GB ramdisk).

Probably due to running out of address space. XP32 is limited to 2GB max per process. The recent GC patch is probably why mozilla-central is better lately due to less fragmentation and therefore slower growth. I bet you'd do better on a 64bit OS, though.

EDIT: Though I think Firefox is compiled with the LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag, which would allow you to allocate up to 3GB of address space per process with the correct boot flags.
http://dwf.blogs.com/beyond_the_paper/2 ... vista.html

[muhahaa]

Azure doesn't seem to make a big difference in the Asteroids benchmark: it's only a few points better than with gfx.canvas.azure.enabled=false. Some parts of the test (at least 4 and 5) are faster with Azure disabled. It's still slideshow, whether Azure is enabled or not.

Azure:
Benchmark Score: 497
Average FPS: 11

No Azure:
Benchmark Score: 429
Average FPS: 9

In Paintball Azure is clearly better.

Azure
14,25 / 366,26

No Azure
41,06 / 127,14

Using Radeon HD 4650 with 11.6 drivers.

Bug 667317 - Azure is slower in some parts of the Asteroids benchmark.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=667317

[Theliel]

Azure doesn't seem to make a big difference in the Asteroids benchmark: it's only a few points better than with gfx.canvas.azure.enabled=false. Some parts of the test (at least 4 and 5) are faster with Azure disabled. It's still slideshow, whether Azure is enabled or not.

Azure:
Benchmark Score: 497
Average FPS: 11

No Azure:
Benchmark Score: 429
Average FPS: 9

In Paintball Azure is clearly better.

Azure
14,25 / 366,26

No Azure
41,06 / 127,14

Using Radeon HD 4650 with 11.6 drivers.

Bug 667317 - Azure is slower in some parts of the Asteroids benchmark.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=667317

No problem here with nVidia 460 With 275.50 Drivers. All test are better with Azure (except test 2), only a graphic issue on test 3 (no performance issue).

Azure Disabled:

715 points
15 fps

Azure Enabled:

1478 points
31 fps

------------------------

Anyway, Edd have similars results so maybe its a AMD/Driver issue or maybe something wrong in your configuration?

[Cru_N_cher]

PS: A easy way to crash Firefox currently open 200 tabs (obviously with content) around (1.2 GB Memory usage, no IPC) and use CTRL+TAB and cycle in a loop through them it's almost guaranteed it will crash, 7 already survives though a lot of cycles
1.6 GB (Private Byte usage) seems to be some magical barrier where the possibility for a crash or cpu utilization loop is pretty high (@ least currently on XP with 3GB available and 5GB ramdisk).

Probably due to running out of address space. XP32 is limited to 2GB max per process. The recent GC patch is probably why mozilla-central is better lately due to less fragmentation and therefore slower growth. I bet you'd do better on a 64bit OS, though.

EDIT: Though I think Firefox is compiled with the LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag, which would allow you to allocate up to 3GB of address space per process with the correct boot flags.
http://dwf.blogs.com/beyond_the_paper/2 ... vista.html

Yep as i said in the Nightly thread you nailed it now @ 97% overall Memory utilization it's becoming unstable and crashes after endless iterations
And yeah 5 and 6 are behind they already crashed much faster without /3GB thx to GC doing its work nicely