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undo new tabbed browsing behavior

Discussion about official Mozilla Firefox builds
The Ex Omega
 
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Post Posted March 6th, 2006, 6:27 pm

jbaker6953 wrote:
Cusser wrote:
stevebell001 wrote:no regard for users or the general target audience

Considering that the motivation for including this was a usability study, that's an interesting theory.


Do you mean an unpublished study? I haven't seen any link to the full text of any study. If it isn't public, it doesn't exist.


Tell that to the federal government. A LOT of things were done, but wasn't made public until a whistle was blown.

To the point: There ARE such things as private studies.

Maybe it was a small study. I remember reading something about a usability study some time ago but I didn't follow up on it. If they haven't deleted too many threads already, you "might" be able to find it.

ColdFusion650

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Post Posted March 6th, 2006, 6:29 pm

Omega X wrote:If they haven't deleted too many threads already, you "might" be able to find it.

they dont delete threads round here. they just lock them.

BenBasson
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Post Posted March 6th, 2006, 6:59 pm

jbaker6953 wrote:Do you mean an unpublished study? I haven't seen any link to the full text of any study. If it isn't public, it doesn't exist.

stevebell001 claims to have read it, see above. I don't think Google employees are in the practise of lying to our faces just yet, anyway.

stevebell001
 
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Post Posted March 7th, 2006, 3:54 am

It was quoted on one of these (two I think) threads on this topic with a link.

I was talking about the home pc market although rereading my post doesn't explicitly state I was still talking about the home PC market which was mentioned in the earlier part of the sentence, and I am afraid that while the odd geek might love his old UNIX most of the market I am talking about are people who have bought their PC from a retailer along with its inbuilt copy of windows etc. If you take the one finger quote literally as one pc, you probably wont see any other connotation (entirely accidental) which could be placed on it.

Sorry Grayson, I thought you started the exercise because you disagreed with the removal of the option. Ok your solution partially works but if you have the clear private data on exit option set, the ff crashes on every exit where you have looked at something. removing tab no X solves the problem!

basically I am sure you are a victim of what I mentioned earlier about the closed community in that you have been browbeaten into accepting the fact whereas for the good of the product and for the protection of the unsuspecting FF1 users we should be making our voices heard.

The tab behaviour does not have to brought back in as the default but it should be part of the main product as an install time and runtime option and there is still time for this to be taken onboard and tested.
If this isn't the right place toraise the issue someone tell us where we should and I am confident there will be a fair few of the silent minority who take advantage.

Grayson, good job, but only 9 out of 10 i'm afraid, however don't forget the reason YOU started on this subject before you decided to take on the reprogramming option. Stand firm and have confidence in your beliefs.

ColdFusion650

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Post Posted March 7th, 2006, 5:26 am

there was a bug that would have put an option to switch back to old close buttons. but ben wontfixed it. im afraid that there will be no option in ff2 for this. maybe after a bunch of regular users complain after ff2 is released, they will do something in ff3.

stevebell001
 
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Post Posted March 7th, 2006, 5:34 am

One major problem with the forums is that newcomers like me don't know who is who. That is the second time I have heard the name Ben today, so he is obviously important to the project and therefore a target. Can someone point me in a direction where I can get more info and contact details and I will try and put our point of view across to him so that he can reconsider the weighted arguments.
BTW Nice to have you back on board Grayson.

Lee_Dailey

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Post Posted March 7th, 2006, 7:12 am

howdy stevebell001,

try doing a google on "ben firefox" ... [*grin*]

take care,
lee

ColdFusion650

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Post Posted March 7th, 2006, 2:22 pm

stevebell001 wrote:Nice to have you back on board Grayson.

ive always been on board. if u read some old posts from the new tabbed browsing thread, ill posted an analysis of bad mozilla decisions. and they usually get fixed in the next build (original winstripe theme was ugly and was majorly revamped between 0.9 and 0.10, luna patch was amazingly ugly and native theme rendering will be 2.0). ive just givin up on mozilla fixing this thing before 2.0 is released. i think that it will take until 3.0 for mozilla to get the picture.

stevebell001
 
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Post Posted March 8th, 2006, 3:53 am

I think you are probably right but the main problem, as I see it, will be a lot of "ordinary" users upgrading to get the latest whizzies and then after about half an hour realizing that they keep closing the wrong tabs.
Then they start whinging and looking for solutions to a problem that didn't exist meanwhile their confidence is being eroded. It takes a lot to get that confidence back and there is every possibility that they will desert and not be around for 3. There are a lot of empty spaces out there once filled by monopolistic companies who thought they knew better than the users and have paid for their arrogance. In this instance I think it is just a bit of misguided direction and I think there is still time for the alternatives to be coded as main stream options (run and install) once the bugs have been ironed out of the "new behaviour". I have tried to send a message to "Ben" via his blog but it is full of spam crap so he has probably given up on it. Never mind, we can but try.
If my memory serves Grayson, you were one of the most vociferous at the beginning, but then, as you are more used to the way this lot works, I felt you gave in too easily and jumped to the other side. That was one of the reasons this went quiet as most of the people on the thread capitulated. However as a few new ones added their thoughts it came back to life at precisely the time I found that my confidence had been knocked so much my thought processes were being interrupted automatically at every tabbed window conclusion. ie thinking about the content, where is the X this time, Oh over there, am I sure its the right one yes click, what the heck was I thinking about last.
I am now finding that I am putting up with IE more as the gain from FF is less and this is not what I want to happen, but I can see that if it "works for me" there will be a lot of new FF converts who will think the same way. The time to recover them is now before they lose their confidence rather than later trying to attract them back. Hence me shouting about there being a behaviour option available at install time and run time. Install because they should have the opportunity to stick with what they are happy with rather than lose confidence and have to revert back, and run time so that they can chop and change to see if they like the new setup or not etc.
I was even contemplating asking the question on the forums I frequent to see what people think as they have not been exposed yet and then if necessary give them the locations to register their thoughts.
This lad Ben is still a mere baby so he is fully entitled to be wrong once in a while. It is up to us adults to gently correct him and guide him on his way again!

ColdFusion650

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Post Posted March 8th, 2006, 5:09 am

stevebell001 wrote:This lad Ben is still a mere baby so he is fully entitled to be wrong once in a while. It is up to us adults to gently correct him and guide him on his way again!

ben is about 8 years older than i am, so forgive me if i dont jump on this particular bandwagon.

stevebell001
 
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Post Posted March 8th, 2006, 5:15 am

Ok I will have to rephrase that as "the rest of the family"

The Ex Omega
 
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Post Posted March 8th, 2006, 4:04 pm

I say go along with the change to the tab close button and give the whiners a "working" extension to revert. I for one, welcome the change. It might seem a little weird at first but you get used to it. Just like when I switched from IE to the Mozilla Suite a good long while ago, and AGAIN with Firefox.

The changes might be a little too quick for "general users" to handle but for an avid user like myself, I've been enjoying the speedy changes that FF has undergone so far. That includes Places, no matter how buggy it is. Its also a good idea that should be given a chance.

ColdFusion650

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Post Posted March 8th, 2006, 4:24 pm

Omega X wrote:I say go along with the change to the tab close button and give the whiners a "working" extension to revert.

thats my position. minus the "whiners" part. not everyone who wants to revert is a whiner. i havent whined at all. once theres a solution to the problem, mozilla can do whatever they want, cause it wont affect me.

Gort

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Post Posted March 8th, 2006, 5:01 pm

@ Omega X

The problem is that you might not be a "whiner" now, but what will you be calling yourself when you find something happen to Firefox that you might not find to your taste?

Personally, I'm not a fan of this move, but I can see why some would like it. I suppose the Tab No X extension is some way to overcome this for those of us who don't appreciate the Xs on the tabs, but I would have really liked a preference in about:config to revert to the old behaviour. Still, considering that there is an extension, it's not that much of a big deal. So, a small grumble comes from me. ;)

dodgy
 
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Post Posted March 9th, 2006, 1:41 am

Hi,

The Tab No X Extension doesn't work with the latest nightly build of FF (I guess since the bookmarks changed) - can this be fixed somehow?

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