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undo new tabbed browsing behavior

Discussion about official Mozilla Firefox builds
BenBasson
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Post Posted February 25th, 2006, 8:28 pm

bizarrojack wrote:That's if you have autohide turned on. To me (just me) autohide would only be a nuisance.

It was chosen as the default setting, so it has to be assumed that auto-hide is turned on.

bizarrojack
 
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Post Posted February 26th, 2006, 12:05 am

ColdFusion650 wrote:
bizarrojack wrote:I'm just saying yes, there was a new tab button on the tab bar

there was never a tab button on the tab bar in firefox. sorry, your wrong

bizarrojack wrote:ou didn't need to tell me my opinion is wrong.

i think you are confused as to the definition of an opinion. saying "there used to be a new tab button on tab bar" is not an opinion. that would be a statement of fact, albeit wrong. an opinion would be like "the button is good." "the button is bad." "the button exists" is not an opinion. don't worry. most people get confused between opinions and wrong statements of fact. it happens all the time.


My opinion is that I liked it, and you tried to refute my opinion by saying it never existed, based on the technicality that firefox never had it, whereas some or all of phoenix or firebird or mozilla app suite did (I assumed that you knew this). The tab bar existed before the label "firefox." You've made a (non-)factual argument against a statement that was fundamentally a matter of opinion. "You didn't need to tell me my opinion is wrong" was a brusque way of bringing this incongruity to the front of your mind, and I was hoping that I wouldn't have to explain it to you.

this is a really stupid argument and I'm letting it die now.

sheehan
 
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Post Posted February 28th, 2006, 11:39 pm

finalcut wrote:I don't understand why you guys don't like x button on every tab. This is the only reason why I personally install tabmix.

IMHO - I find it completely redundant for any person with a scroll-wheel or middle-button, an unnecessary crimp in screen real estate and an inelegant solution.

yagood
 
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Post Posted March 1st, 2006, 12:36 am

sheehan wrote:
finalcut wrote:I don't understand why you guys don't like x button on every tab. This is the only reason why I personally install tabmix.

IMHO - I find it completely redundant for any person with a scroll-wheel or middle-button, an unnecessary crimp in screen real estate and an inelegant solution.


I've got (and use in Firefox) scroll wheel and middle button, but I also use X button, because I'm used to closing documents with X in the corner in all Windows applications.

BenBasson
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Post Posted March 1st, 2006, 1:34 am

sheehan wrote:IMHO - I find it completely redundant for any person with a scroll-wheel or middle-button, an unnecessary crimp in screen real estate and an inelegant solution.

Try clicking a mouse-wheel on any of the most recent Logitech mice. Or just any mouse, ever. It's horribly difficult in a lot of cases.

pikaunforgiven
 
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Post Posted March 1st, 2006, 2:17 am

i have a somewhat recent logitech optical mouse and i dont see a problem with middle clicking, other than every now and then ill accidentally scroll it slightly. only happens when im careless though. it might be a problem with an old worn out mouse with a worn out scroll tension spring though.

stevebell001
 
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Post Posted March 1st, 2006, 2:20 am

Due to problems with the update process I have ended up with 2 different versions on the pcs I use. One has the "old" system which I prefer, The other has the new system. I usually have so many tabs open it is hard the find the last X, but on the whole the "wonderful" experience of having tabs with their own X button thus having to waste time and deflect thought processes to find the thing has severely dampened the usability of the old system as I now have to double check "just in case". From a users perspective, I now find that I use IE a hell of a lot more than I used to as I no longer get the automatic added value I used to, so although the new behaviour follows the "standard" windows behaviour, although why anyone looks to MS for a lead beats me, the subtle increase in unusability for the non geek could be enough to put Firefox back into the small specialist niche. After all, as far as I am aware the other browsers that have been copied have been around for some time, but have NOT had the success that Firefox has enjoyed with the beginners and non tech market.
The earlier comment stating that the user installed an add on to get the desired X on every window effect shows that it was perfectly alright before with the geeks able to fine tune.

BenBasson
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Post Posted March 1st, 2006, 12:14 pm

stevebell001 wrote:The earlier comment stating that the user installed an add on to get the desired X on every window effect shows that it was perfectly alright before with the geeks able to fine tune.

That comment is hardly sufficient to refute an actual study on the issue.

supernova_00
 
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Post Posted March 1st, 2006, 3:34 pm

I use css/js code to put the close button only on active or hoverd over tab...very annoying to have close button on every tab

ShareBird

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Post Posted March 1st, 2006, 6:19 pm

I love having close buttons on every tab!!

What's easier to do with css hacks? Remove the close button on other tabs than active or hovered or put close buttons on every tab??...

ehume

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Post Posted March 1st, 2006, 9:14 pm

The problems I have with close buttons on every tab:

They take up priceless screenspace.

I have to think about which tab I have open. It is much easier to close the current tab by going to the same place every time. Every task I offload from my cognitive brain system to my motor brain system is a boon.

(BTW--your brain has separate systems for thinking and doing. Yes, they interact, but the motor system can be on autopilot and leave you headspace for thiniking. UI's that use this principle are more helpful to me.)
Firefox: Sic transit gloria mundi.

stevebell001
 
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Post Posted March 2nd, 2006, 2:48 am

Cusser,
You say "That comment is hardly sufficient to refute an actual study on the issue." but I did take the time to read the studyand the issue was so false it did not warrant a report.

A false environment was set up whereby the guinea pigs had absolutely no choice in where their windows were created, everything was in a new tab. As far as I could see they were not necessarily a collection of valid normal Firefox users and therefore not used to tabs or the tabbed browsing. They were given a bad solution at the same time.

As I said in an earlier post, if you conducted the test in China amongst 50000 or 100000 users you would end up with a result that said the only language required was Chinese. Ok I'll rephrase that outcome as the default language for all installations and installation dialogues.

peaveyman

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Post Posted March 3rd, 2006, 7:59 pm

Why not just middle click on the tab you want to close?

ehume

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Post Posted March 3rd, 2006, 8:52 pm

Because you have to think about just what tab is open. You have to change the focus of your attention from text to tab, then move the mouse to the correct tab. It's not like having a consistent spot that you move the mouse to, to close the current tab.
Firefox: Sic transit gloria mundi.

BenBasson
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Post Posted March 3rd, 2006, 9:31 pm

stevebell001 wrote:A false environment was set up whereby the guinea pigs had absolutely no choice in where their windows were created, everything was in a new tab.

That's what the default will be for Firefox 2.0 as far as I know. This is irrelevant anyway, nobody is testing the usability of tabbed browsing over the usability of separate windows, they were specifically testing the tabbed browsing interface.

stevebell001 wrote:As far as I could see they were not necessarily a collection of valid normal Firefox users and therefore not used to tabs or the tabbed browsing. They were given a bad solution at the same time.

I don't know where you're getting this from. What is a "valid normal Firefox user" and why is someone that already understands tabbed browsing useful in deciding how to improve the system for people that don't?

stevebell001 wrote:As I said in an earlier post, if you conducted the test in China amongst 50000 or 100000 users you would end up with a result that said the only language required was Chinese. Ok I'll rephrase that outcome as the default language for all installations and installation dialogues.

The study suggests that the close button isn't logically placed and that people have trouble closing tabs. Your comparison is ridiculous.

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