someone please fill me in. @ mozilla

[Nestea]

I don't understand Mozilla. They seem autistic in a way.

there is no link on mozilla.org to thunderbird. I think I remember having read something few years back about thunderbird spinning off mozilla, but that's still a weird flex to not link it anywhere.

they tell you thunderbird 91 has issues and that 78.13 has no update feature yet to upgrade to 91, so why is there nowhere a link to the 78 binaries on thunderbird.net. ?

for being all about web standards and whatnot, aka clowning chrome (granted partially forced bc google is being bad faith), they sure do a piss-poor job with web design, not forcing people to use a web search engine. /s
I mean what normie knows about ftp repositories. I don't understand Mozilla. Is this an issue of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing?

[tanstaafl]

The reason there is no link on mozilla.org to thunderbird.net is because Mozilla's mindset is that the only product that matters is Firefox. See https://www.eteknix.com/mozilla-descriox-development/ for example.


"why is there nowhere a link to the 78 binaries on thunderbird.net. ?"

Because they are using anybody who downloads the setup program as guinea pigs. After a few weeks of feedback/monitoring bug reports for 91.* and releasing a few minor versions they will enable auto-update. The intent is good, to avoid 26 million users using something that is not fully tested. But it is misleading as most people assume the download is for a real production quality release. They should have two download buttons, one for the current release and the other for a "pre-release" of the next major version. There used to be a EarlyBird channel but that was canceled.

Why does this occur? Because the Mozilla culture views it as acceptable behavior. If a few years ago when the Thunderbird project had a chance to choose a different legal/financial home they didn't decide to renegotiate a deal with Mozilla things might have been different.

[WaltS48]

Here, I thought the reason there is no link on mozilla.org to thuderbird.net is because it hasn't been a Mozilla product since 2015.

Thunderbird Update

Thunderbird's Future Home (2017)

Thunderbird's New Home (2020)

[DN123ABC]

...
Because they are using anybody who downloads the setup program as guinea pigs. After a few weeks of feedback/monitoring bug reports for 91.* and releasing a few minor versions they will enable auto-update. The intent is good, to avoid 26 million users using something that is not fully tested.
...

I thought this is why there is a "BETA" version, for people to test functionality of fixes and new features voluntarily.

[DN123ABC]

To Nestea:

see:
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic ... &t=3078166

and:
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic ... &t=3078585

[tanstaafl]

"Here, I thought the reason there is no link on mozilla.org to thuderbird.net is because it hasn't been a Mozilla product since 2015."

Huh? The chair of the Mozilla Corporation stated that the Mozilla Corporation would stop developing Thunderbird in a July 2012 post. Since then AFAIK the fiscal/legal home has always been Mozilla (currently MZLA Technologies Corporation, a new wholly owned subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation) despite stating they were a independent project and/or a community lead project. There was a recent push to strengthen "Thunderbird" branding (stop pushing "Mozilla Thunderbird") but the engineering manager pushed back on that 13 days ago ("FWIW, I disagree. We should not de-emphasize the ties to Mozilla."). https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1577638

Look at the "Give to Thunderbird" web page at https://give.thunderbird.net/en-US/ . "Contributions go to MZLA Technologies Corporation, a California corporation wholly owned by the Mozilla Foundation. Funds will be reserved for use in the Thunderbird project."

You haven't kept up with local politics where a Thunderbird Council member (Jörg Knobloch) and a very vocal critic (Eyal Rozenberg) were banned by a Mozilla manager for a extended period due to violating Mozilla Community Participation Guidelines (CPG). That ban included the ability to run for election to the Thunderbird Council last year.

[Nestea]

Here, I thought the reason there is no link on mozilla.org to thuderbird.net is because it hasn't been a Mozilla product since 2015.

Thunderbird Update

Thunderbird's Future Home (2017)

Thunderbird's New Home (2020)

yea that's what I was maybe remembering.

Could've even been from 2012.

"Here, I thought the reason there is no link on mozilla.org to thuderbird.net is because it hasn't been a Mozilla product since 2015."

Huh? The chair of the Mozilla Corporation stated that the Mozilla Corporation would stop developing Thunderbird in a July 2012 post. Since then AFAIK the fiscal/legal home has always been Mozilla (currently MZLA Technologies Corporation, a new wholly owned subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation) despite stating they were a independent project and/or a community lead project.
..........

anyway. thanks for all your input. Probably for the better anyway that they spun off.

company politics, best politics. lol

[WaltS48]

"Here, I thought the reason there is no link on mozilla.org to thuderbird.net is because it hasn't been a Mozilla product since 2015."

Huh? The chair of the Mozilla Corporation stated that the Mozilla Corporation would stop developing Thunderbird in a July 2012 post. Since then AFAIK the fiscal/legal home has always been Mozilla (currently MZLA Technologies Corporation, a new wholly owned subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation) despite stating they were a independent project and/or a community lead project.

I thought it was in 2012, but my link to that Mitchell Baker post resulted in a 404 error, so I went with what I could provide confirmation for.

Just found this one, which is a bit outdated now, but is last updated on 28 November 2012.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Ne ... ance_Model.

[tanstaafl]

What are we debating?

Your last link is to a wiki page created by the Thunderbird project that states while its part of Mozilla they realize the project is not a priority for them, and talks about how to organize/run the project in a way to promote community lead innovation when Mozilla sees no need for that innovation (just on-going security and stability).

[Nestea]

randomly ran into https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/05/th ... al-report/
I honestly thought more people worked on Thunderbird. like idk 50-100. It's only 20

We currently employ a talented team of 20 people in the following roles:

[WaltS48]

Don't forget the volunteers that spend some time working on bug triage, release candidate testing and more.

I thank me for my service.

[Nestea]

Oh yea you're right. I honestly did forget about bugzilla.
Well thank you and all the other volunteers.