COMPLETE REDESIGN OF TBIRD JULY 2023

[sjw54]

Wondering what you know about this: I received this article a few months ago. I watched the video and it says we have a choice...go with the new or stay with the old. What are your thoughts?

https://www.ghacks.net/2023/02/14/compl ... july-2023/

[DanRaisch]

Moving to Thunderbird General as this is not actually a support question.

Well, the new release version won't be out until July so the question is a trifle moot at this time. When it is released, you could download a copy of an installer for an older version of TB and store it locally, back up your TB profile and then let TB update to that new style. If after trying out the new style you don't like it, you would be able to remove the newest version, run the installer for the older version, and then restore the backed up profile.

[smsmith]

You can see the progress by installing the Beta build. You should definitely make sure you create a profile to use in Beta that is never crossed with your release version usage. In my opinion, it's a welcome update to the looks of Thunderbird, but functionally it is not ready for prime time or even late night usage. I fire it up every once in a while just to see how things are progressing, but I need to revert to release after about five minutes due to things not fully working yet.

For instance, on my Gmail account, if I delete a message, it is marked as deleted, but I am not advanced to the next message. Calendar loads extremely slow. Even in my Live mail account, advancing to the next message is very slow and often times the header does not update.

Like I said, looking good and I am grateful to the effort, but not ready for daily or regular use.

Beta download: https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/download/beta/

If your release version of Thunderbird is closed, Beta *should* create a new profile for you. But you should start with the profile manager just in case, so your old profile doesn't get eaten.

Profile Manager: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Profile_manager

[Gone Postal]

If your release version of Thunderbird is closed, Beta *should* create a new profile for you. But you should start with the profile manager just in case, so your old profile doesn't get eaten.

Having been once bitten and now twice shy, I close TB and make a copy of the existing profile before downloading a new beta if it is reported as a major upgrade.

[sjw54]

I DO NOT want beta.....after what I just went through getting rid if it (you and Dan advised my friends who came to take care of that - they uninstalled the beta I never asked for and installed an earlier version)....that was a nightmare with my Aol and Verizon addresses. When this new version comes out, I will probably have major issues. I wish they would just leave the damn thing alone and let customers opt in for the new version. Let us choose. As you may remember, I am NOT skilled at any of this stuff......God did not give me the gift of understanding computer anything. I have many other gifts, but this ain't one of them. I live in fear of what Tbird is going to mess up next and I will be unable to use it. Sorry...it's been a rough week.

I was hoping that in late June I back up the version I have now and then if they dump a beta version on my I can have my friend uninstall the new thing and reinstall the one I backed up. Does that sound reasonable?

[DanRaisch]

and then if they dump a beta version

They won't. That's not how the process works. If you have the release channel installed, only updates to the release version will come your way.

[sjw54]

Dan, what I will never understand is that I never installed a beta (I just open my Tbird every day and it is what it is). Somehow I ended up getting beta versions. When you first started helping me with getting rid of beta last month, I found that at one point I did not have beta, and then I did. Hopefully now that we uninstalled it last month, I will not end up with it again. We did a backup before we made changes, and then I realized the last backup was the beta we got rid of, so now I need to do another backup with the nonbeta I have now.

My question is, when they roll out whatever it is in July, do we wake up to a whole new Tbird or are we given the option continue with what we have? If only I was a tech person who could grasp all this....but I am thankful for you and my local friends who come to help.

[DanRaisch]

I never installed a beta (I just open my Tbird every day and it is what it is)

Sorry, I know that is what you recall but it's really not possible. Thunderbird will only install an updated version of the stream (release, Beat, or Nightly) installed on the machine being updated. That is, if you are using a release version, any automatically installed update will be of the release version. If you suddenly have a Beta version on the system, that would have to have been installed from a separate installer (.exe).

Try menu path Tools->Settings->General->Updates->select "Check for updates but let me choose whether to install them". On my system running Win 10 this causes TB to display a fairly large dialogue box (outside of TB) asking for permission to update the program. Exiting that dialogue box stops the update process, leaving the existing version of TB in place.

[Gone Postal]

. . . what I will never understand is that I never installed a beta (I just open my Tbird every day and it is what it is). . .

Susan

You tell us that you have people who act as your tech gurus and look after your computer for you. Without wishing to cast any aspersions, it seems that you have had bad advice from time to time and the beta has also been installed on your machine, over-writing the release version without your knowledge or say-so.

Perhaps you should review who is allowed to make changes to your machine and make sure that they know what they are doing rather than being enthusiastic, optimistic amateurs. As a pointer to that, thousand of people on the release channel use TB every day without any problems letting things update as necessary without any intervention. If your installation is not working properly, do you think it might be because someone who is not fully technically capable has been making changes so that your version of TB does not work like the version that thousands of others use quite happily and without problems?

[sjw54]

Hi Gene, actually they are not specialized tech people, the last ones. But I have no one else to call. All my tech people have moved away. They do the best they can. None of them installed Beta.....that I know of, because it did not happen at the time they were here doing a backup. When Tbird changes, I have to call someone. THen they come to try to fix it. They are doing me a favor. She is actually the one who recommended this last laptop, and uninstalled everything from the old laptop and got me set up with the new one, making the desktop how I like it for my Windows 10. She is really good at researching before she does anything. The people I have had help over the years...no one is familiar with Tbird..so they all do their research before doing anything, or they follow the instructions I get on this forum. Unfortunately most tech people are not familiar with Tbird. No one I have ever met....thanks Gene.....I know where you are coming from.....I have been very fortunate that over the years there has been someone to help when needed and willing to take the time to figure out the problems. Often it is the incoming and outgoing with passwords that happens every so often......but I hate the other servers and I love Tbird...

[mtalbot]

{Back on topic}

I've got both the Beta and Daily versions of Thunderbird running in a VM (only the Release channel touches my main machine and profiles) and, in my opinion, the new look is undesirable/unpleasant. Even the current 102.11.0 version includes some of the things I dislike.

I'm quite happy to say that I'm old school and think they should only change the UI when there is good reason to do so (M$ have yet to learn this lesson as seen with the ridiculous changes they keep making to Windows and the Windows taskbar ).

I like the old saying: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[wsmwk]

{Back on topic}
I like the old saying: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

It may not be visible, but the problem is, the current code base is broken in multiple ways.

One of the videos talks about it. I will attempt to list a few items:
1. the current UI code base is based on XUL, and XUL will be removed from the Firefox code base (and are not going to abandon Firefox core code for some other technology)
2. The UI code is poorly abstracted and modularized ...
3. The xul based code is hard to maintain and hard to improve....
4. The updated code will easier to make both small and large fixes and make much needed improvements - which are already being done for version 115: improved accessibility, consistent zoom and font sizing across the UI, better performance for modern mail volumes, modern hooks for add-ons, etc
5. The updated code has more automated tests ("code coverage", so surprise regressions and bad behavior from future fixes and "mistakes" (not just from Thunderbird coders but also from Firefox) is far less likely to happen.

Yes, the UI is changing. And that may take some acceptance. But in short, replacing 20+ year old code is better all around.

[mtalbot]

It may not be visible, but the problem is, the current code base is broken in multiple ways.

I know that the code is broken in multiple ways and that means a lot of work to re-write the code base so that Thunderbird can be supported in to the future (and I certainly hope it has a very long future).

Yes, XUL-based code is hard to maintain and hard to improve. The first Mozilla extensions I wrote were in XUL/XPCOM (my grey hair collection increased markedly while writing them) so I have some idea of what a big task the developers are dealing with (I don't envy them with the amount of work they need to do).

My issue isn't with the code being re-written and XUL/XPCOM being removed (as it needs to be) but with changing the UI layout when that really doesn't seem necessary (except in some specific areas).

Kudos to the developers for all of the hard work they are doing. I'm just old fashioned and would like them to leave the UI alone unless they really need to change something to fix a problem.

[wsmwk]

Check the videos?

[sjw54]

I found an IT person who is not cheap, but I have passed on all your information so that when the time comes, he will deal with it. Reading your posts is like reading Latin or heiroglyphics .....LOL. I thank you for your contributions to my original post. I, too, wish that those of us who love it and are satisfied with it now could not have to deal with the changes. I did a backup yesterday of my Non beta version that I have now, after getting rid of the Beta I never wanted. I am determined to keep my T-bird. Thanks for all your input....