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Thunderbird and Windows 10 Default Mail App

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ffextensionguru

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Post Posted July 19th, 2015, 4:41 pm

So based on the response I received when I asked Jared (jaws) about how the changes with Default Apps in Windows 10 would affect Thunderbird that this is going to be an issue for Thunderbird as well. Since he doesn't work on Thunderbird he was not sure what was happening there. I did a brief search in Bugzilla for this issue but came up dry. Does anyone know if this issue is being addressed for future releases of Thunderbird and if so what release...since Thunderbird is based off Firefox ESR and Jared said they will not add this fix until Firefox 45 ESR. That makes sense, given those who are using Firefox ESR are not very likely to be jumping onto the Windows 10 bandwagon anytime soon.

The Mechanic

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Post Posted July 20th, 2015, 8:41 am

Microsoft has never done this, or anything like this, before so why would they start now?
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ffextensionguru

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Post Posted July 20th, 2015, 7:54 pm

The Tinsmith wrote:Microsoft has never done this, or anything like this, before so why would they start now?


Because they can? :twisted: My understanding of this besides as a security benefit is that Microsoft is trying to make Windows 10 almost universal across all form factors (PC, Surface, xBox, Phones, etc.) and therefore making the default app preferences a system level setting (kinda like it is with Android you choose which App you want to do what, instead of the App itself telling Android it wants to be default).

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Post Posted July 21st, 2015, 5:13 am

Because they can? :twisted: My understanding of this



I have Windows 10 x86_64 RTM (release to Manufacturer) version and Firefox 39.0 x86 installs and 'offers' to be set as default. And it is. Since my Win 10 is x86_64 I also tried Firefox-40b4 (there is no x86_64 Firefox 39.0) and it also installed with no problem.

Thunderbird 38.1 x86 installs but does not offer to set itself as default. However Firefox sees it as the default email client for 'maitto:' and Windows sees it as the default email client.

It is simple enough to go to the Windows 10 'set default programs' section and there, for your own piece of mind : -), to set Thunderbird as the default email client. Again. :-)

The setup screens look different but it is similar to the screens in Win 8.1, Win 7, Vista, and Win Xp.

Which sort of indicates, to me that this not a Microsoft plot but a fault in Thunderbird. :-)

Have a great day.

rsx11m
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Post Posted July 21st, 2015, 6:35 am

ffextensionguru wrote:since Thunderbird is based off Firefox ESR and Jared said they will not add this fix until Firefox 45 ESR. That makes sense, given those who are using Firefox ESR are not very likely to be jumping onto the Windows 10 bandwagon anytime soon.

Thunderbird 38.x is build from its own version branch in mozilla-esr38; thus, if there is a fix coming up for whatever needs to be fixed that is compatible with the 38 ESR branch, but Firefox doesn't want it, such patches can and are landed on this Thunderbird-specific branch. Several "low-priority" (for Firefox) editor fixes landed on Thunderbird in this way already.

rsx11m
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Post Posted July 30th, 2015, 7:41 pm

The Tinsmith wrote:Microsoft has never done this, or anything like this, before so why would they start now?

Adding to this, there has been a blog entry and open letter to Microsoft today regarding the lack of respect for the user's choice of a different default browser in Windows 10 today, https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2015/07/30/safeguarding-choice-and-control-online/; thus, thinking that the same would/does apply to the choice of the default email client.

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Post Posted July 31st, 2015, 2:36 am

Microsoft today regarding the lack of respect for the user's choice of a different default browser in Windows 10


Which sounds, to me, like whining about nothing. :-)

I do not know about Mac. I've never used one. But I would think that they come with a default browser and email client set as the defaults. Which I would, again think, could be replaced. Would those survive a system update? That I do not know.

I do know about various Linux distributions, since 1998, OS/2 Warp since OS/2 v1.0 and Windows since 2.0.

The Linux distros come with many different browsers and email clients *but* if you install the KDE desktop, which looks like Windows, you get that browser and email client as the defaults.
Or the Gnome desktop which looks somewhat like a Mac? You get that browser and email client as the defaults. The same for Xfce. Windows has always made Internet Explorer as their default browser and one of various email clients over the years.

I would think that Microsoft Edge would be selected as a default, read that as known to exist and be in the install and to work, instead of an unknown browser that might not work. And the same for an email client.

With previous versions of Windows it was suggested to 'clean install' and Internet Explorer was the default browser and Outlook (IIRC the name) was the default email client. Either, or both, of which could be replaced by the browser and/or email client of your choice. Just like now.

Menu > All Apps > Windows System > Control Panel > Programs > Default Programs > Drop down list(s) for browser and email client

And why would Microsoft select Mozilla products? Firefox is not the only browser and Thunderbird is not the only email client either.

So, IMHO, there is no plot. No evil money hiding in the closet. :-)

Have a great day.
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rsx11m
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Post Posted July 31st, 2015, 6:16 am

Setting the default application on a fresh install is one point; retaining a previously made choice when upgrading the OS is another, and I'd expect that to be retained (and I think those are kept in ~/.kde4 or another "dot" directory on Linux, thus would "survive" even a fresh install as long as that information is retained in your home directory). Another point made in the blog article is apparently that Microsoft made it more laborious to actually change a default application (which occasionally has been the case in the past as well, despite having several mechanisms to do so) where apparently the API has changed and applications need to adapt (talking theory as I don't have a Win10 installation to test).

So, it's a bit more than just whining about a competitor's attempt to get some more benefits out of being the owner of an underlying operating system, making it harder for a user to customize their installation is never a good idea from the user's point of view. On the flip side, Firefox has been rapidly reducing UI features in their own application along with various API changes in the backend (and is planning to) without much regard for other Gecko applications like Thunderbird and SeaMonkey, expecting them to keep up with their pace. Thus, I smell a tiny bit of hypocrisy here. 8-)

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Post Posted July 31st, 2015, 11:33 am

Thus, I smell a tiny bit of hypocrisy here. 8-)



I believe the proper phrase for this is "a tempest in a teapot". Which means "a small event that has been exaggerated out of proportion".

Have a great weekend.
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ffextensionguru

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Post Posted July 31st, 2015, 12:34 pm

rsx11m wrote:despite having several mechanisms to do so) where apparently the API has changed and applications need to adapt (talking theory as I don't have a Win10 installation to test).


Of the four machines I have, two have offered me to upgrade to Windows 10...problem is I don't want to Windows 10 on those two machines. One of the other ones I think is possessed as I started researching how to manually upgrade it to Windows 10 it started throwing BSOD again (something it had not done in the past year). I've got one other machine that is a Windows 8 tester that so far does not offer me the upgrade. I do need to put Thunderbird on there though before I start. I am planing on giving it a forced Windows 10 update this weekend.

rsx11m wrote:Setting the default application on a fresh install is one point; retaining a previously made choice when upgrading the OS is another, and I'd expect that to be retained (and I think those are kept in ~/.kde4 or another "dot" directory on Linux, thus would "survive" even a fresh install as long as that information is retained in your home directory).


It has been so long since I've done an upgrade (I am thinking Windows 98 SE to Windows XP back in '01) I don't recall how defaults were handled. Of course back then with was Internet Exploiter and Outhouse Express *shudders*.

rsx11m wrote: Another point made in the blog article is apparently that Microsoft made it more laborious to actually change a default application (which occasionally has been the case in the past as well, despite having several mechanisms to do so) where apparently the API has changed and applications need to adapt (talking theory as I don't have a Win10 installation to test).


It is way too many hoops for a user to have to jump through. Worse yet, is M$ choses to display an error message saying 'you can do that here, go deep into your settings instead' but, make it so you have to close the error message in order to continue. User either needs a good memory or needs to write down the path.

I have to wonder how the EU feels about this...they sure had a fit with Microsoft making IE the default browser out of the box. But this time around it is much, much worse.

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Post Posted July 31st, 2015, 2:22 pm

This sounds like you might have some serious, personnel, problems, with your computers.

I do *not* have the links but Google is your friend here. :-) There is a tool to disable the update for Windows 10 so that it does not happen and it does not nag you.

As for BSOD's? Those are normally caused by misbehaving video drivers. Old ones or 'no longer supported' drivers or hardware. That depends on the age of your machine(s) and their hardware of course.

there is a reason that Windows XP, and the hardware, is no longer supported. The world moves forward.

Good luck with your problem(s) and remember that, as I said, Google is your friend here.
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ffextensionguru

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Post Posted July 31st, 2015, 3:30 pm

I alway had problems with that one computer, which was why I retired it other than for testing. The thing was that computer was working fine once I did a clean install of Windows 7 after the idiot who built it for me installed Vista then upgraded to Win 7 and then the first time around he upgraded to 32-bit Win7 (the machine had 8 GB of RAM). It always sounded like a turboprop from day one it was just the type of fans that were installed. I haven't used XP in years that was just the last time I upgraded from an older version of Windows instead of getting buying new machine with said newer version of Windows. Had an old XP machine I was using for testing after I had gotten a Vista machine (which IMHO was far worse than Windows 8) used that one until the motherboard finally died. Now it is all Windows 7 and 8.

I will look into disabling the upgrade for my main two machines I don't want to update. The machines...now machine I WANT to upgrade doesn't have the offer (of course it hadn't been used in a few months so it was way behind in updates). So I will Google about doing a forced update, which was what I was doing on the other one when it started doing the BSOD again.

However, getting back to the topic at hand here, apparently there is (not so obvious) option in the Window 10 Upgrade for "customize settings" in lieu of 'express settings' with an option to let you keep your defaults. Though most users likely would just do express (especially if Microsoft puts 'recommended' next to it). I though, would do customize to see what my options were. Plus in the case of lot of software nowadays, it is how you find out what malware/spyware/bloatware they are trying to sneak on your system (I remember this well with Waterfox).

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Post Posted July 31st, 2015, 4:02 pm

I will look into disabling the upgrade for my main two machines I don't want to update. The machines...now machine I WANT to upgrade doesn't have the offer (of course it hadn't been used in a few months so it was way behind in updates). So I will Google about doing a forced update, which was what I was doing on the other one when it started doing the BSOD again.

However, getting back to the topic at hand here, apparently there is (not so obvious) option in the Window 10 Upgrade for "customize settings" in lieu of 'express settings' with an option to let you keep your defaults. Though most users likely would just do express (especially if Microsoft puts 'recommended' next to it). I though, would do customize to see what my options were. Plus in the case of lot of software nowadays, it is how you find out what malware/spyware/bloatware they are trying to sneak on your system (I remember this well with Waterfox).



I specifically did *not* offer 'fix me' links that I saw because I have no real idea what hardware you might have or what problems you might have here. Bad advice is much worse than no advice. I really dislike the 'try this' suggestions that 'it did not work for me but it *might* work for you advice.

As I said - I have seen links to tools that would get Microsoft to leave you alone about Win 10. Do they work? Don't know. Did not try. Your choice.

As for Windows 10 and 'expert options'? yeah I can believe that. However. Notice the 'name' of the option. :-)

Best wishes and good luck. There is always, well almost always, a solution for everything. :-) Ya' just have to look.
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Post Posted July 31st, 2015, 5:42 pm

I used the customized install and it held all my default program choices just fine. (Win 7 home premium > Win 10 Home).

My current gripe is that the digital assistant, Cortana, will not open a new message compose in Thunderbird via voice command. She WILL open Thunderbird's main user interface via voice command, however.

I guess I'm getting ahead of the technology expecting to be able to compose e-mail on a laptop by voice dictation when not using the Microsoft self-baked apps. Maybe they'll get around to it in a couple of years, I don't know.

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Post Posted July 31st, 2015, 5:52 pm

Wish I could delete a copy of that prior double-post. *SMH*

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