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2004-03-12 Weekly Build Now Available (Win32)

Discussion about official Mozilla Thunderbird builds
AlexIhrig
 
Posts: 239
Joined: May 23rd, 2003, 5:47 am
Location: Germany

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 1:41 am

@mscott:

You should have a look into the new credits dialog (2004-03-16 build):
Andr... Dahlqvist

And the orange color should be blue....
Thunderbird Mail DE: http://www.thunderbird-mail.de
Enigmail OpenPGP [de]: http://enigmail.thunderbird-mail.de/

jmontana
 
Posts: 562
Joined: March 14th, 2003, 1:36 pm
Location: RI

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 7:22 am

I'm seeing a weird issue where new mail will get filtered to a folder, which will be displayed in bold. When I click on the folder, the message will suddenly decide it's Junk, and will get moved into the Junk folder. Is this something to do with the timing of the junk filter?

Somewhat related issue: if I go to Junk and mark the message as Not Junk, it remains in the Junk folder. Shouldn't it get moved back to the filtered folder?

Kylotan
 
Posts: 478
Joined: July 21st, 2003, 4:45 am
Location: Nottingham, UK

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 7:30 am

I've been seeing that for a long time. It's somewhat annoying as you'd hope junk would be labelled before you go to see what it is.

Moving the message back to the filtered folder would presumably mean re-running the filter on it, which might not have all the information available (but I'm just speculating).

jmontana
 
Posts: 562
Joined: March 14th, 2003, 1:36 pm
Location: RI

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 7:56 am

Why wouldn't all the information be available? I would think you would treat it as new mail again and refilter it.

More junk issues: I just got a message that refuses to move to the Junk folder when I mark it as junk.

Another problem: I was viewing mail for the last 5 days, and saw I had an email that was new, but not within the last 5 days (the folder was bold, but nothing was bold in the message display.). I switched to "Unread" and saw one message, which was the message I mentioned above. I then switched to "All" and nothing was displayed. I selected another folder and went back to this one, and then it listed everything.

Kylotan
 
Posts: 478
Joined: July 21st, 2003, 4:45 am
Location: Nottingham, UK

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 8:05 am

Well, for example, once the email is downloaded, you're no longer connected to the server and therefore I don't think there's anything in the headers that prove which account the email was downloaded from.

djbrock
 
Posts: 79
Joined: May 2nd, 2003, 8:21 pm

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 8:07 am

uggi wrote:
djbrock wrote:The reason I delete them (based upon advice in the forum) is that it unmarks all the junk mail that is marked as junk. That way it does not confuse the filter as it would if you unmarked them by hand.

This is getting confused for the user :shock: And, it seems that my Tbird is also confused. It just won't agree with my classification of spam and ham. There's some messages that it just doesn't want to recognize as spam. No matter how many times I manuallly mark them as spam, the next time I run the junk mail controls for the folder, it unmarks them again.


You should never re-run the junk mail filter on messages that are already marked as junk. The purpose of deleting the MSF files is to delete the recording of them as junk. If you unmark them any other way, it confuses the filter because it now thinks they were mistakenly marked as junk in the first place. If I were you I would do the following. (1) reset the filter Tools: Junk Mail Control: Adaptive Filter: Reset Training. (2) sort my junk into one folder (3) delete the MSF file for that folder (4) select all the messages in that folder (5) mark them as junk (right-click on the selected group, choose Mark, choose As Junk.

That will let you start over again with a clean Training.Dat file. You can also select files that are NOT junk and mark them as not junk.

If you don't want to do all of that, just reset the filter and train it over time.

jmontana
 
Posts: 562
Joined: March 14th, 2003, 1:36 pm
Location: RI

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 8:14 am

Kylotan wrote:Well, for example, once the email is downloaded, you're no longer connected to the server and therefore I don't think there's anything in the headers that prove which account the email was downloaded from.


What about Delivered-To: or X-Apparently-To:?

Kylotan
 
Posts: 478
Joined: July 21st, 2003, 4:45 am
Location: Nottingham, UK

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 8:20 am

It doesn't uniquely identify an account.

uggi
 
Posts: 218
Joined: November 5th, 2002, 1:53 am
Location: Finland

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 8:27 am

djbrock wrote:You should never re-run the junk mail filter on messages that are already marked as junk. The purpose of deleting the MSF files is to delete the recording of them as junk. If you unmark them any other way, it confuses the filter because it now thinks they were mistakenly marked as junk in the first place.

So what happens if after furious training I happen to make a mistake and accidentally mark a whole folder or messages as spam and then have to undo it? I have to re-train everything again?

djbrock
 
Posts: 79
Joined: May 2nd, 2003, 8:21 pm

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 8:42 am

So what happens if after furious training I happen to make a mistake and accidentally mark a whole folder or messages as spam and then have to undo it? I have to re-train everything again?[/quote]

If I had marked a large folder of messages as junk that were not, then I might retrain the filter. Otherwise, no. But there is an equation of some sort that the filter uses to determine what is and is not junk. Whenever you unmark something it modifies the words that it marked from the document (don't ask me for a technical explanation, I'm not qualified to give that).

Earlier in this thread there is a way to make a RunTb.bat file that records a log of marked junk. If you wish to get more technical you can write one of those and put it in your TB directory.

Another techy solution is to modify the User.js file and set the threshold at a lower level. That number is usually set at 90 by defaut, but still some mail slips through. By lowering the threshold you get more hits. The problem with that is that some Junk mail is really benign, like an advertisement for a mortgage. The words in that would not score very high compared to the dirty words in a porno advertisement! See the problem? So while the porno ad may score 90 or above as junk, the mortgage ad may score only 10. That is my best understanding of the issue, not being a developer.

MScott who is a developer suggests training on around 700 junk mails by selecting them and marking them as junk and then on a large body of non-junk mails. Personally, I think if I were doing the second step again, I would only train on the non-junk mails that come from people or sites that are NOT in my address book (White List).

jmontana
 
Posts: 562
Joined: March 14th, 2003, 1:36 pm
Location: RI

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 8:46 am

Kylotan wrote:It doesn't uniquely identify an account.


Sure it does. It has the email address right in it, which is tied to my account.

Kerrick
 
Posts: 202
Joined: May 30th, 2003, 7:58 am

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 8:52 am

After several days of using either the filter effectiveness is down (Could i be 'confusing' it?) or my spam is slowly changing, i'm back up to a decent amount of spam per day (again in just one mailbox mainly) but nowhere near as much as before



Edit:
I also just noticed something when trying to view images in a n email. I right click where the image should be, hit view image, and i get an error dialog saying "Content/navigator.xul cannot be found" is that a known issue?

sasquatch
 
Posts: 6022
Joined: November 25th, 2003, 8:56 am

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 9:06 am

I can't believe that it would get confused if you mark and then re-mark them. Isn't it flagged one of two ways, either junk or not junk? I don't see where any "confusion" would come from.

Kylotan
 
Posts: 478
Joined: July 21st, 2003, 4:45 am
Location: Nottingham, UK

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 9:10 am

jmontana wrote:
Kylotan wrote:It doesn't uniquely identify an account.


Sure it does. It has the email address right in it, which is tied to my account.


Nope. I could have 2 accounts, 1 of which checked the email before a certain date, and 1 of which checks the account now. You can also have many email addresses being redirected to a single POP account. Email addresses and POP accounts don't have a 1:1 correlation.

jmontana
 
Posts: 562
Joined: March 14th, 2003, 1:36 pm
Location: RI

Post Posted March 17th, 2004, 9:12 am

jmontana wrote:More junk issues: I just got a message that refuses to move to the Junk folder when I mark it as junk.


Quoting myself, that can't be good ...

For some reason, the automated move-to-Junk is not working for any of my messages. I get a new message, I mark it as Junk, it gets the Junk icon, but it doesn't move to the Junk folder.

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