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SeaMonkey 2.38 has been released!

Discussion of general topics about Seamonkey
Frank Lion

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Post Posted September 28th, 2015, 12:35 pm

rsx11m wrote:Making those about: pages "nice" again requires looking at them one by one and figure out if and how corrections can be made and if forking of the entire page is necessary and feasible. Meaning, giving limited resources, it takes a while.

...or, meaning, if you write Complete Themes, it takes less an evening. This is Firefox 42 -

http://franklion.co.uk/GEN-LINKS/Screenshot-am.png

rsx11m wrote:That's how it works in a community project.

Certainly in the case of Firefox, I don't think anyone has thought of that as a community project since around 2008 or even earlier. There is also no communication, and this includes from SM devs, what the main devs want or where it is intended that the project is going.

People need to think how things work in the real world - you want something, you ask. What you don't do is wait around and expect people to drop by selling their suggestions, like an encyclopaedia salesmen, for them to deign to consider.
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

rsx11m
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Post Posted September 28th, 2015, 3:44 pm

Frank Lion wrote:...or, meaning, if you write Complete Themes, it takes less an evening.

The point is, if you know how to fix something, know that it takes you less than an evening to do it, and have less than an evening to spare, no reason not to post a patch? Ratty or Neil will be happy to review solid code, and given recent restoration of the Private Browsing page, there is obvious willingness to reverse the new styles coming from the Firefox side.

I don't think anyone has thought of that as a community project since around 2008 or even earlier. There is also no communication, and this includes from SM devs, what the main devs want or where it is intended that the project is going.

I certainly wasn't talking about Firefox but SeaMonkey. Judging from the status meetings, the main SeaMonkey devs don't know what's going on in Firefox's upper hemispheres either, thus there isn't much communication to pass on.

People need to think how things work in the real world - you want something, you ask. What you don't do is wait around and expect people to drop by selling their suggestions, like an encyclopaedia salesmen, for them to deign to consider.

Funny, my experience is that if you just keep asking not much is happening. Once you throw in a piece of code, things start moving (at least with Thunderbird and SeaMonkey, unless it's a particularly disputed issue).

Frank Lion

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Post Posted September 28th, 2015, 4:10 pm

rsx11m wrote:
Frank Lion wrote:...or, meaning, if you write Complete Themes, it takes less an evening.

The point is, if you know how to fix something, know that it takes you less than an evening to do it, and have less than an evening to spare, no reason not to post a patch?

Well, there's a very good reason not to - me no mindreader. How do I know what SM devs want/don't want? Yeah, I see the default theme looking pretty rough round the edges and the 'modern' theme in a very serious need of cleaning up and bringing up to date. But, the real point is, how do I know that the devs and users don't want those looking exactly as they do?

Which, I suppose is why Complete Themes exist and why I do them. Stuff looks fine at my end and other people are free to take it or leave it.

All I was doing here was just pointing out that if you already work in that sort of area that these things don't take that long. That's all. No debate of point needed.
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

rsx11m
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Post Posted September 28th, 2015, 5:22 pm

Yeah, that discussion was specifically about the recent changes in the about: pages, the Add-Ons Manager being one of them. There is support for reverting those changes (thus, making look and function work as before) as they don't fit into the overall style of SeaMonkey. So, that's rather well defined. In general, I certainly agree that it's a matter of personal taste how a page or UI elements are supposed to look like. Suggesting a change by a patch should give you some feedback soon what's wanted and what not in the default themes, at least from the devs, but that's probably not for substantial changes of the overall theme that need a broader consent.

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Post Posted September 29th, 2015, 6:47 am

rsx11m wrote:BTW: I'm using https://addons.mozilla.org/seamonkey/ad ... ionnumber/ to get the version numbers back into the Addons-Manager page.

I see that if Javascript is disabled, restart SM, all add-ons show as disabled and none of the add-ons options in the AOM are clickable. The add-ons still work.

Wonders if there is some sort of exception that can be added to allow JS only in the AOM or could this be a bug in that add-on.

That add-on works fine in Thunderbird and I didn't think Thunderbird supports JS.

Dev can move this if needed.

Scarlettrunner20

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Post Posted September 29th, 2015, 6:56 am

To me, I am wondering why with SeaMonkey 2.38 that I bother to use it now that it is sporting Australis like GUI changes! The entire point of SeaMonkey, to me, is that it has remained pure and true to itself GUI wise...until now with missing extension version numbers in Addons Manager (plus, Addons Manager page is ugly now). So, now in SeaMonkey I have to install an extension (like I do in Fx 41) to fix it. UGH.

I do very much appreciate the icon font fix in SeaMonkey 2.38 but not GUI changes that conflict with the character of SeaMonkey. And BOO on whatever GUI change messed up Ghostery.

rsx11m
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Post Posted September 29th, 2015, 7:10 am

If you read the previous posts carefully you will notice that the "Australis GUI changes" were solely caused by the code shared with Firefox (and maintained by them), thus nothing SeaMonkey can do other than tracking those down and reverting the changes (in the case of the Private Browsing page, making it strictly SeaMonkey-local).

Frank Lion

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Post Posted September 29th, 2015, 7:25 am

Scarlettrunner20 wrote:To me, I am wondering why with SeaMonkey 2.38 that I bother to use it now that it is sporting Australis like GUI changes!

Yeah, because most people spend at least 95% of their time looking at the Addon Manager when using a browser.

@rsx11m - I can fix the about:addons coding easily enough, especially as I'm already familiar with Firefox coding. But...really...you should be taking the 'Old Addon Manager' window route by Exalm there for consistency with the Prefs window , as however you style it InContent stuff it will never look that great.
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Scarlettrunner20

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Post Posted September 29th, 2015, 7:31 am

Yes, I realize this is NOT the fault of SeaMonkey devs.

I installed Aris's fix for the version numbers but when I am not so sleepy I am going to try the fix Frank Lion mentions. I read part of that extension developer's thread here but too tired to read it all now.

I posted at Ghostery forums. I hope that can be fixed soon as I really want Ghostery working.

I also referenced this thread in the Mozilla forum at dslreports where others are upset about the Australis like GUI changes.

therube

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Post Posted September 29th, 2015, 7:37 am

I see that if Javascript is disabled, restart SM, all add-ons show as disabled and...

Not able to duplicate (in a not so clean Profile).
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Post Posted September 29th, 2015, 10:43 am

I was wondering what was the whole fuss about the add-ons manager because I didn't notice anything out of style - apart from missing version numbers, of course. And it turns out the reason is I am using Classic Firefox theme for SeaMonkey, which effectively keeps nice and consistent look of the AOM - at least on Windows 10 it looks elegant. It was only when I changed to the default theme that I saw the weird look. So if a theme can get rid of the ugliness then perhaps it's just a matter of adjusting the default theme?

Other than that, I've found that SM 2.38 works better with Firebug. I used Firebug 2.0.8 with SM 2.33 and 2.35 and opening SM with a console window was a pain because on startup I waited some 10 seconds while a long list of errors was being spit out by Firebug. In SM 2.38 the list got shortened to 2 or 3 error messages and after upgrading to Firebug 2.0.12 there are even fewer errors - actually no errors, I only see a few warnings from time to time. I hope Firebug will be kept alive for as long as possible...
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Bozz
 
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Post Posted September 29th, 2015, 12:32 pm

therube wrote:
I see that if Javascript is disabled, restart SM, all add-ons show as disabled and...

Not able to duplicate (in a not so clean Profile).

A new clean profile is how I found out. I thought I had a problem with one of my add-ons causing it.

I installed the add-ons version number with only the two default add-ons installed and no problem. Only after changing settings in SM Preferences is when it happened. That's also what happens in my existing profile as well. You have to restart SM to see it.

It's no big deal really. It's not like anyone actually needs to open the AOM enough to be a problem.

Just pointing out what I found in case there's an actual conflict between SM and that add-on or if anyone else asks about it.

patrickjdempsey

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Post Posted September 29th, 2015, 2:02 pm

I'm having an issue with SeaFox where an entire style sheet is not loading. Perhaps a failure of the chrome manifest. Need to do more testing to rule out other extensions.... I do have suspicions about "bootstrapped" extensions like ABP.

Edit: I'm almost 100% positive it's ABP breaking my global.css file. :(
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Pim

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Post Posted September 30th, 2015, 12:41 am

Does anyone else notice that the menu shortcuts for some menu items don't work if the focus is on the location bar?

For instance, Ctrl+Shift+A for the Add-ons manager works fine if you're just browsing, but not if you click the location bar first, or if you create a new tab where the cursor is in the location bar by default.

Other menu keyboard shortcuts work OK both ways.

This is in Linux, 64bits, if that matters.
Oh, and I just realised I'm not even sure it's new in this version.
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Scarlettrunner20

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Post Posted September 30th, 2015, 12:49 am

Lemon Juice wrote:I was wondering what was the whole fuss about the add-ons manager because I didn't notice anything out of style - apart from missing version numbers, of course. And it turns out the reason is I am using Classic Firefox theme for SeaMonkey, which effectively keeps nice and consistent look of the AOM - at least on Windows 10 it looks elegant. It was only when I changed to the default theme that I saw the weird look. So if a theme can get rid of the ugliness then perhaps it's just a matter of adjusting the default theme?
...


SeaMonkey Modern works and it changes the ugly Addons Manager so it looks nice. All my other SeaMonkey themes are Personas and NONE work after this upgrade. They weren't disabled during the upgrade. They just don't work. So, just now, I went to Addons site and previewed one I used to use on Fx. It previewed fine so I installed it and it works correctly. However, I still have that awful looking Addons Manager because, of course, Personas are not full themes. The Addons Manager look for SeaMonkey Modern full theme looks much better with Personas IMO. Is there a way to get that Addons Manager look for Personas instead of the default theme's Addons Manager?

I had switched to the default theme two versions ago because my back/forward buttons suddenly stopped working. They don't work even with the default theme in 2.38 version. They don't work with SeaMonkey Modern theme either. So, I was surprised that they work with this Persona I just downloaded!

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