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The future of Seamonkey?

Discussion of general topics about Seamonkey
Andy Boze

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Post Posted December 27th, 2015, 9:54 am

Frank Lion wrote:
patrickjdempsey wrote: And even if you know what they are... close two grippies and tell me which one will definitely open the menu toolbar. You can't because there's no way to tell.

You can, but you will not believe how! :) - viewtopic.php?p=14234339#p14234339

Even easier: Just hover your mouse cursor over the collapsed toobar grippy. (Works on Windows, don't know about other OSes.)
But then again, I may be wrong.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted December 27th, 2015, 10:30 am

Andy Boze wrote:Even easier: Just hover your mouse cursor over the collapsed toobar grippy. (Works on Windows, don't know about other OSes.)

Even easier? A miracle! An element with a tooltip!

....just like every other single element in a UI then.
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tonymec

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Post Posted December 28th, 2015, 3:20 am

Andy Boze wrote:Even easier: Just hover your mouse cursor over the collapsed toobar grippy. (Works on Windows, don't know about other OSes.)

Works on Linux too. XUL is supposed to be cross-platform so I guess it works everywhere.
Best regards,
Tony

Frank Lion

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Post Posted December 28th, 2015, 6:32 am

Andy Boze wrote:Even easier: Just hover your mouse cursor over...

See? This is how Firefox should have marketed their recent disappearing of versions numbers for themes/extensions in the Addons Manager. -

'Tired of having to read the same old version numbers every time you look at your extensions in Firefox and SeaMonkey', right? Well, now you don't have to because we've hidden them and made it even easier! You just hover your mouse cursor over each one and a neat little tooltip appears telling you! Just how cool is that?

...and it doesn't end there. We even went back 20 years in time to make sure that every Linux distro on the planet in the future would also be able to display tooltips on any program using it! Neat, eh?
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patrickjdempsey

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Post Posted December 28th, 2015, 10:13 am

Andy Boze wrote:Even easier: Just hover your mouse cursor over the collapsed toobar grippy. (Works on Windows, don't know about other OSes.)


And the new user knows they should bother to do that... why exactly? The closest thing they resemble in any UI I've ever seen is the moveable toolbars that are still popular in graphics applications but used to common across Windows. And they do pretty much exactly the opposite of what those do... instead of moving a toolbar it just disappears. Of course most people with less than a whole lot of computer experience will never have even encountered movable toolbars, so they will just see them as a weird old fashioned UI decorations and avoid them. This being a hypothetical situation where a user from Firefox wants to give a go at SeaMonkey.

I agree that infrastructure stuff is tantamount... but the question was asked why isn't SM more popular given it's status within Mozilla. And the answer seems to be that people judge the performance of the browser based on it's outward appearance and their first-impression in using it... which unless you have very clear memory of the 90's internet, is not likely to be very good.
Tip of the day: If it has "toolbar" in the name, it's crap.
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Andy Boze

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Post Posted December 29th, 2015, 11:50 pm

patrickjdempsey wrote:
Andy Boze wrote:Even easier: Just hover your mouse cursor over the collapsed toobar grippy. (Works on Windows, don't know about other OSes.)


And the new user knows they should bother to do that... why exactly? The closest thing they resemble in any UI I've ever seen is the moveable toolbars that are still popular in graphics applications but used to common across Windows.

I didn't mean to suggest that a new user would know how to do that; I was just pointing out that there is an easy way to see what the collapsed toolbars are (if you know that you can). I have to admit that I practically never collapse the toolbars. As far as I can remember, they are a holdover from Netscape 4, where you could actually drag the toolbars to different positions using the grippies. I miss being able to do that. (Yes, I know how to do it now, but grabbing a grippy was still easier.)

As far as the tooltips, hovering over GUI elements for tooltips is just second nature to me. I do it all the time in most programs I use, and I find it a little irritating when I don't get a tooltip that clues me to the function of an element.
But then again, I may be wrong.

Roger Davis
 
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Post Posted December 30th, 2015, 4:03 pm

I just read this on one of the industry blogs:

"Now, Mozilla understands the only way they can stay relevant is to focus on the one thing they do best...Firefox."

What does this mean for SeaMonkey?!?

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Post Posted December 30th, 2015, 4:13 pm

Roger Davis wrote:"Now, Mozilla understands the only way they can stay relevant is to focus on the one thing they do best...Firefox."

This means Firefox is what Mozilla is best at. Which means that Mozilla is not good at anything.

This last sentence is about Mozilla as an organization with its current leadership - Mozilla has a bunch of really good developers but they won''t save it if the management is inadequate.

Roger Davis wrote:What does this mean for SeaMonkey?!?

This means that SeaMonkey will have to do more development on its own and it will have to rely less on Firefox's code. How this turns out no one knows. Some cooperation with Thunderbird is possible.
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Roger Davis
 
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Post Posted December 30th, 2015, 11:02 pm

Speaking for myself, I can do without the email client. What I really need is the browser, very hopefully with sync working. I use this on 5 different machines, and without sync it's getting to be a real pain in the (*).

Why should SeaMonkey rely less on Firefox, as long as they will allow Firefox to be used as kernel for SeaMonkey. The key factor seems to be whether or not SeaMonkey continues as an organization?

Peter Creasey

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Post Posted December 31st, 2015, 7:52 am

Roger etal, All three components (browser, composer, email) are very important to me and my business.
. . . . . . . . . . Pete

Frank Lion

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Post Posted December 31st, 2015, 8:04 am

Peter Creasey wrote:Roger etal, All three components (browser, composer, email) are very important to me and my business.

We get it, you keep repeating it. What? No one can ever say what they need/use in case Peter Creasey gets upset?
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barbaz
 
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Post Posted December 31st, 2015, 10:35 am

Roger Davis wrote:Speaking for myself, I can do without the email client. What I really need is the browser, very hopefully with sync working. I use this on 5 different machines, and without sync it's getting to be a real pain in the (*).

I personally use browser and Mail, but with two separate installations of SeaMonkey and two different profiles (one browser only, one Mail only). Those two components (and having the two separate instances able to play nice with each other) are most important to me.
Should Composer be updated to do HTML5, then I might use it, but in its current state I don't need it.

Roger Davis wrote:The key factor seems to be whether or not SeaMonkey continues as an organization?

I don't think so - SeaMonkey is being developed by users in their spare time, it's more a community project than an "organization" (AFAIK the only organization behind it is the SeaMonkey Council). The main issue is what direction to take SeaMonkey once Firefox scraps technologies that SeaMonkey depends on, given that SeaMonkey doesn't have as much resources as Mozilla/Firefox.
*Always* check the changelogs BEFORE updating that important software!

Peter Creasey

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Post Posted December 31st, 2015, 11:48 am

Frank, Thanks for replying! No one is upset...leastwise, not me.

I'm a longtime happy user and cheerleader who steers folks to SeaMonkey whenever possible.
. . . . . . . . . . Pete

Roger Davis
 
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Post Posted December 31st, 2015, 10:49 pm

I've been a user and promoter of SeaMonkey since its first version, and depend on it for all my browsers (5 machines, 3 locations). My biggest hope is that all this racket will prompt more activity and improvements, bringing us back to when all the features worked and skys were blue...

Otherwise, I'd really like to know the direction of the organization, council, whatever...

frg
 
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Post Posted January 1st, 2016, 4:41 am

>> Otherwise, I'd really like to know the direction of the organization, council, whatever...

I would like to know first who or what the current council really is:) Donations go to Seamonkey e.V. which has the adress of the university Bayreuth in Germany.

FRG

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