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Time to say Good Bye.......

Discussion of general topics about Seamonkey
Frank Lion

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Post Posted September 26th, 2016, 8:19 pm

LuvKomputrs wrote:
Peter Creasey wrote:m, If you haven't already, you might check to see if your anti-virus/security processes might be the culprit(s).

That's also a good thing to check as well.

Plugins often get overlooked as well, as people forget that the same plugins are autodetected in a new profile. Thus, if there are causing problems, they cause them everywhere.

No mention of trying SafeMode in that OP? - therefore hardware acceleration will be On in any new profile, and so, untested with it Off.

Anyway, I'm using SM on this netbook atm that has XP on it and 1GB of RAM and it runs fine, so it's not like there is some universal fault or problem with SeaMonkey.

Still, good to see a good ol' 'Goodbye, cruel world' thread in the SM forums for a change, you usually only ever see those in Firefox General. :)
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

Pauliemon
 
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Post Posted September 27th, 2016, 12:25 am

Myself, I have Cyberfox and Thunderbird as a good back up combo in case Seamonkey goes kaput. Tried Pale Moon, good browser but some sites have problems with it. IE, Edge, Chrome,, Opera- not of fan of any of those browsers. I jumped from the firefox browser couple years ago for many reasons. Cyberfox is a version of Firefox that lets use at least make the toolbar buttons larger which I like. Though like Firefox, you can't choose which cookies to accept anymore but I found an add on for that.

TPR75
 
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Post Posted September 27th, 2016, 12:59 am

Pauliemon wrote:Cyberfox is a version of Firefox that lets use at least make the toolbar buttons larger which I like. Though like Firefox, you can't choose which cookies to accept anymore but I found an add on for that.


SeaMonkey shares the same code from Firefox so it will be affected too (next official release or present Adrian's unofficial versions):
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3013757

If you have solution (extension) for this I'm very interested. [-o<

LordOfTheBored
 
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Post Posted September 27th, 2016, 7:41 am

therube wrote:Or Lynx in text mode.

Well, yeah. But links -g is so much more comfortable.
(I also prefer Links to Lynx even in text mode. )


jwjones wrote:Anymore, it seems that ALL browsers suck, it's just a matter of finding the one that sucks the least, for your particular needs.

That sounds suspiciously like my rule of IRC clients.

All software sucks, everything is terrible. Whoo!

Pauliemon
 
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Post Posted September 27th, 2016, 5:01 pm

TPR75 wrote:
Pauliemon wrote:Cyberfox is a version of Firefox that lets use at least make the toolbar buttons larger which I like. Though like Firefox, you can't choose which cookies to accept anymore but I found an add on for that.


SeaMonkey shares the same code from Firefox so it will be affected too (next official release or present Adrian's unofficial versions):
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3013757

If you have solution (extension) for this I'm very interested. [-o<


If your referring to the cookie situation that add on is called Cookie monster. With this cookie monster, you put a button on the main toolbar. Go to let say Facebook, click on that button it gives you the option to accept cookies permanently for that site no matter what ur settings are . You log onto your browser and you will see that site (facebook here) is all ready to go since it saved the cookies for it. Now if Seamonkey is going in that same direction of only giving you 2 options like keep cookies until you close the browser or keep everything thats a problem because so far Cookie monster is not avail for Seamonkey. With my current settings, I have keep cookies until you close your browser. Than I just click on that cookie monster for sites like Twitter and Facebook and it remembers the cookies even after you close your browser. Little bit of a pain but at least i have some control over the cookies.

TPR75
 
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Post Posted September 28th, 2016, 12:44 pm

Pauliemon wrote:
TPR75 wrote:If you have solution (extension) for this I'm very interested. [-o<


If your referring to the cookie situation that add on is called Cookie monster.


Well... It's better than nothing. But it can't handle all situations like old method "ask every time".

Example:
http://trailers.apple.com/

When I've opened with 2.40 version and I was asked for every cookie then I had to choose:
- accept (at least for session) cookies for domain "trailers.apple.com",
- was asked about cookies for "movietrailers.apple.com".

With latest Adrian's version 2.46 and converted Cookie Monster 1.3.0.5 (or Firefox 49.0.1 with original CM; behavior almost the same) I wasn't able to find above second ask for "movietrailers.apple.com". For this particular site it doesn't matter (at least seems like this) I can imagine situation when will enter more serious website where cookies from subsite of the same "major domain" will be required.

Detection of third party cookies sometimes is problematic too.

Besides it's an extension. It had problems few moths ago to work with Firefox 45.x and it's matter of time only when Mozilla devs will change its behavior again.

I hope SeaMonkey devs will bring back such important feature like "ask every time" for cookie permissions.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted September 28th, 2016, 1:44 pm

TPR75 wrote:I hope SeaMonkey devs will bring back such important feature like "ask every time" for cookie permissions.


Car > Small child > are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet?

I think they got your message, chum.

(bet we get that other guy who drones on about sync here soon) *sigh*
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

TPR75
 
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Post Posted September 29th, 2016, 1:28 am

Frank Lion wrote:Car > Small child > are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet?


It looks like being rude is part of your nature and such childish behavior fits you very well... :roll:

There is some serious problem and with next release we will face it directly. Cookie management. Without "ask every time" function for cookies our experience with most websites will drastically change. Even present "permissions" will be lost in time when old cookies will reach time limit. And then we'll face real problem. Give up our privacy or lost website functionality? Some Firefox users are aware of this and they could switch to SeaMonkey if it had such function (re-)enabled.

If you don't have anything smart to say don't say it at all... [-(

Frank Lion

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Post Posted September 29th, 2016, 2:42 am

TPR75 wrote:There is some serious problem..

Yeah, such a serious problem that you couldn't even be bothered to start a new thread on it and instead chose to spam someone else's unrelated thread with it.

TPR75 wrote:There is some serious problem and with next release we will face it directly. Cookie management. Without "ask every time" function for cookies our experience with most websites will drastically change.

Nope. We had all this Chicken Licken 'The sky is falling!' stuff in Firefox General ages ago and nothing changes. No privacy concerns, no security concerns, just people needing to adjust their thinking. For example, just how much more private can it get than having no cookies allowed, apart from a few vital exceptions?

- viewtopic.php?p=14505671#p14505671
viewtopic.php?p=14512145#p14512145
viewtopic.php?p=14517677#p14517677 ...etc.etc

As for being rude, when I read normal reasoned argument getting nowhere and still the end of the world stuff persists, then damn right I'll be rude if that what it takes to get the message home. (there is a sort of massive clue underneath my avatar here.)
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

frg
 
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Post Posted September 29th, 2016, 9:21 am

TRP75: I can assure you that the 'ask about cookies' option won't come back any time soon if ever.

If you want it install a develop environment for your OS and you can have a backout source code patch from me. That's what I did. No other way with the current shortage of developers and funds.

TPR75
 
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Post Posted September 29th, 2016, 9:54 am

frg wrote:TRP75: I can assure you that the 'ask about cookies' option won't come back any time soon if ever.
[cut]
No other way with the current shortage of developers and funds.


Yes, I know. Thank you. I understand what is going on and how you working hard to keep SeaMonkey alive and kicking. Very BIG thank you to all devs.

My point is Mozilla made big mistake (from our, users' point of view). I'm trying to find solution for this. Unfortunately, some people do not understand and even doesn't try to understand what problems it will cause. They're fixed on their little closed worlds and think other should behave the same. They do not try to help, they're forcing their point of view, ignoring other users' needs and complaining about imagined "whining". It's wrong, it's arrogant and is not helping at all.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted September 30th, 2016, 2:15 am

TPR75 wrote: Unfortunately, some people do not understand and even doesn't try to understand what problems it will cause.

Chum, you want to write about me then at least have the guts to say so and not hide behind that 'some people' stuff.

TPR75 wrote:They're fixed on their little closed worlds and think other should behave the same.

You are describing yourself.

On that thread, I totally changed how I personally had cookies set and showed people affected by this, how to have the 'no cookies' option set and to set exceptions using Page Info, plus less extreme methods for novice users. Plus, explaining how cookies actually work. That not helpful? That doesn't take care of fictitious privacy concerns?

No, people didn't get their little 'Ask me every time' checkbox back, but at least they learned how to use their browser properly and not sit there endlessly and needlessly clicking. I mean, just how many secure sites or login forums can one person go to? Those are the only sites that needed to be exceptions and the rest of the entire Net has cookies blocked.

Yes, removing that 'Ask' option was a poor idea, but it really isn't the end of the world. Adapt, enjoy the Net without that continuous clicking and move on.
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

Anonymosity
 
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Post Posted September 30th, 2016, 7:10 pm

Pauliemon wrote:SeaMonkey shares the same code from Firefox so it will be affected too (next official release or present Adrian's unofficial versions):
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3013757

If you have solution (extension) for this I'm very interested.
Now if Seamonkey is going in that same direction of only giving you 2 options like keep cookies until you close the browser or keep everything thats a problem because so far Cookie monster is not avail for Seamonkey. With my current settings, I have keep cookies until you close your browser. Than I just click on that cookie monster for sites like Twitter and Facebook and it remembers the cookies even after you close your browser. Little bit of a pain but at least i have some control over the cookies.

You are saying that Firefox (and by extension, SeaMonkey) is going to have cookie handling crippled? Why? A good browser lets you make a normal rule for cookies and then set exceptions for it. Does Mozilla (and probably Google as well) think that most users are so stupid that they cannot understand the concept of making exceptions?

TPR75
 
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Post Posted October 1st, 2016, 1:04 am

Anonymosity wrote:
Pauliemon wrote:
TPR75 wrote:SeaMonkey shares the same code from Firefox so it will be affected too (next official release or present Adrian's unofficial versions):
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3013757

If you have solution (extension) for this I'm very interested.

Now if Seamonkey is going in that same direction of only giving you 2 options like keep cookies until you close the browser or keep everything thats a problem because so far Cookie monster is not avail for Seamonkey. With my current settings, I have keep cookies until you close your browser. Than I just click on that cookie monster for sites like Twitter and Facebook and it remembers the cookies even after you close your browser. Little bit of a pain but at least i have some control over the cookies.

You are saying that Firefox (and by extension, SeaMonkey) is going to have cookie handling crippled? Why? A good browser lets you make a normal rule for cookies and then set exceptions for it. Does Mozilla (and probably Google as well) think that most users are so stupid that they cannot understand the concept of making exceptions?


Not "is going to have" but Firefox already has it (since the beginning of this year) and your (unofficial Tinderbox) SeaMonkey 2.45 for Mac has it too. Just check settings:
Menu -> Edit -> Preferences -> Privacy & Security -> Cookies -> Cookie Retention Policy -> there is no more "Ask for each cookie" option

Now we have to accept all or deny all cookies. First option is not acceptable (at least for me) and second is not functional/practical. You can make exception in two ways:
1) Page Info (Ctrl+i; for Windows) - in "Permissions" tab you can decide what to do with cookies... but for main domain only. Third party cookies will be "invisible" but when particular site will require it you can't do anything with it;
2) "Cookie Monster" extension - it's for Firefox only but it is possible to convert it. Unfortunately, it requires some additional "tuning" to make it works:
viewtopic.php?p=14714414#p14714414
This extension will allow to manage third party cookies too but it is known (by users' reports) that not all third party cookies can be detected.

Both methods aren't good replacement. They're rather "prosthesis after leg's amputation" - they will not work the same.

Theoretically it is possible to maintain such function in SeaMonkey but it requires more skilled developers. If you know somebody who can participate in such noble work then let them know... :wink:

Frank Lion

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Post Posted October 1st, 2016, 2:58 am

Anonymosity wrote:You are saying that Firefox (and by extension, SeaMonkey) is going to have cookie handling crippled?

Well, seeing as how on the latest Firefox versions I have all cookies blocked apart from certain 1st party and 3rd party cookie exceptions and am using no extensions to do that, then I guess the answer has to be no.



@ For non-tech users - there's no real need to get too involved in this stuff if you don't want to, just make sure that you have the Cookie Retention Policy box checked for Allow for Current Session'/'Expire when I close..' as a minimum. Cookies persisting forever is not a great idea for anyone.

Slightly more advanced basic control advice is given here - viewtopic.php?p=14508863#p14508863 under the 'Quick novice Cookie 'How To'' section.
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

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