Firefox version 15.0.1 and Flash Player incompatible?

[Ortho_Fan]

Starting with the update of Firefox 15, and continuing into version 15.0.1, my Firefox browser has logged a series of "silent" crashes. By silent I mean that there was no visible sign that a crash had taken place. I found out about them by typing about:crashes into Firefox's address bar. (I actually do this about once per week just to make sure that there are no problems that should be addressed.)

All of the crashes--and there were dozens--were "empty" in that no source could be identified. Specifically, the following appeared at the top of each crash report: Firefox Crash Reports [@ EMPTY: no crashing thread identified; corrupt dump ]

In addition, the crashes were intermittent. I checked this out by constantly checking for new crashes after calling up various web sites. For instance, I would would go to Google News, check for a crash report, go to a feature story, check for a crash report, watch a YouTube video, check for a crash report, close Firefox, open it, check for a crash report, etc. What I found was that I often would visit 20 or more sites before a crash report was filed; however, an average of ten crashes appeared daily--again, all with NO indication of what had caused the crash. (Since they were all identified as @ Empty, I deleted them.)

At first, I could see no pattern, so I troubleshooted by enabling/disabling hardware acceleration for both Firefox and Flash Player, enabling/disabling cookies, enabling/disabling JavaScript, etc.

I also scoured various Firefox help forums, doing Google searches, etc., but it seemed that the same answers appeared on all of the forums, and they pretty much echoed the troubleshooting steps I had taken. (It seems that the major issue now is the fact that hardware acceleration causes Firefox 15.0.1 to crash for many users.)


After many hours of testing, I noticed that I had been on a site containing an embedded flash video, just prior to a crash. (Interestingly, I never received a crash report after watching a YouTube video on YouTube.) I then tried disabling Protected Mode in Flash Player, which worked several months ago after the new "sandboxing" provision was introduced, and was found to be incompatible with the then-version of Firefox. So far, this has stopped all crashes. After six days of normal usage and surfing, there have been no reports, whereas, prior to doing this, I was averaging at least one per hour.

This leads me to believe that the designers of the latest version of Firefox have either omitted whatever code string was used to fix the problem that occurred last June, or some new, incompatible code has been included. Either way, I think that this should be looked into by BOTH Adobe and Mozilla as soon as possible--but especially by Mozilla, since Flash Player 11.4.402.265 worked just fine with Firefox 14.0.1. (I have recently downloaded the latest version of Flash Player, 11.4.402.278, tested it with Protected Mode enabled, and immediately started to receive empty, silent Firefox crashes.)

I don't know if there's a connection, but I also did a recent check of Firefox's "top crashers" and the empty crash report is by far the most common--over 877,000 at the time I checked. If I understood the graph, there has been an escalation since the introduction of version 15.0. How many of them are silent, and therefore, unnoticed by the users, is anyone's guess, but I suspect that I'm not the only user on the planet this is happening to.

Please note: I posted a nearly identical version of this message on the Adobe Flash Player forum several days ago. So far, no responses have come in.

Ortho_Fan

[patrickjdempsey]

First off, we ain't Mozilla:
http://www.mozillazine.org/about/

Secondly, even if we were Mozilla, Mozilla doesn't make Flash.

Thirdly, Adobe purposefully designed Protected Mode FOR Firefox and apparently didn't test enough hardware profiles before they unleashed it on the unsuspecting world. Mozilla makes all versions of Firefox freely available for anyone and everyone for three months before it is released and it's Adobe's responsibility to test their product with beta versions before they release it.

Just disable the broken feature and go about your day.

[Ortho_Fan]

Hi Patrick:

Many thanks for your response. I'm sorry my above post didn't make it clearer.

I'm well aware that Flash Player is not made by Mozilla or Firefox. I've already made a post about this issue on the Adobe forum, as I mentioned above.

I WASN'T aware that there was a difference between mozillazine and mozilla, since this forum was one of the pre-loaded bookmarks that came with my version of Firefox when I first installed it last April. I assumed it was where people who had questions about Firefox would turn for help. Thanks for pointing that out. (I'll know better in the future.)

In any event, I HAVE disabled the Flash Player's protection--also as I stated above. I don't like having to do this, since it's supposed to make Flash Player vulnerable to a host of attacks, but there you are. Since the crashes were NOT happening before the Firefox 15 update, I assumed Firefox was responsible. Perhaps not.

OF

[patrickjdempsey]

It is Adobe's responsibility to test their product against new versions of Firefox, which as I said are freely available for 3 months before the release. More than likely it's a conflict with specific hardware profiles that Adobe is not doing due diligence on testing.

As far as security concerns go you have several alternatives:

- Uninstall/disable Flash: YouTube and a few other sites offer video now in HTML5 alternative, and many sites have abandoned Flash layouts for JS-based layouts. Adobe refuses to fix their security holes and instead pretends that fragile and crashy sandboxing schemes are going to save us, which I find ridiculous. (Remember that XP users don't receive this all-important feature). I've already completely uninstalled Java as well as in-browser PDF readers and am completely happy doing away with all of this unsecure, crashy junk. Flash is the last one I allow.

- AdBlock Plus: IMO most of the "nasty" Flash content out there is in advertisements. In the years since I was told about AdBlock Plus, I've watched my malware infection rate go down from DAILY to ZERO. I'm sold on it.

- Flashblock or NoScript: If you have the spare time to invest in fine-tuning your Flash permissions, this option puts you in the driver's seat of what AdBlock Plus does by filter subscriptions.

[Ortho_Fan]

Hi Patrick:

Again, many thanks for the advice. I do use Adblock Plus, and will look into Flashblock or NoScript further, per your suggestion.

By the way, my relatively new PC did not come with Java and I have no intention of installing it. It caused nothing but problems on my old PC.

As for PDF documents, I never read them "in-browser." I always download them, and scan them before opening. I use something called "PDF Complete Special Edition" which came pre-loaded on my HP Omni "All in One" to view PDF files. I've no need to create a PDF file, but I know that there are many free alternatives to Adobe if I do. Sites like Zamzar will also convert to PDF format from *doc, etc., for free.

OF

[patrickjdempsey]

Foxit is a popular alternative to Acrobat.

[xed]

This is a goodie:

Nitro PDF Reader — The PDF Reader, Reimagined

[mitjacv]

It is Adobe's responsibility to test their product against new versions of Firefox, which as I said are freely available for 3 months before the release. More than likely it's a conflict with specific hardware profiles that Adobe is not doing due diligence on testing.

As far as security concerns go you have several alternatives:

- Uninstall/disable Flash: YouTube and a few other sites offer video now in HTML5 alternative, and many sites have abandoned Flash layouts for JS-based layouts. Adobe refuses to fix their security holes and instead pretends that fragile and crashy sandboxing schemes are going to save us, which I find ridiculous. (Remember that XP users don't receive this all-important feature). I've already completely uninstalled Java as well as in-browser PDF readers and am completely happy doing away with all of this unsecure, crashy junk. Flash is the last one I allow.

- AdBlock Plus: IMO most of the "nasty" Flash content out there is in advertisements. In the years since I was told about AdBlock Plus, I've watched my malware infection rate go down from DAILY to ZERO. I'm sold on it.

- Flashblock or NoScript: If you have the spare time to invest in fine-tuning your Flash permissions, this option puts you in the driver's seat of what AdBlock Plus does by filter subscriptions.

In my case I was unable to view any flash (11.4) content and ff (15.0.1) froze on every occasion. I turned off hardware acceleration (ff and flash) and protected mode, nothing worked. I downgraded flash and it didn't help. I searched for the solution in several places and most suggested above solutions.
Your comment about "a conflict with specific hardware profiles" made me check my video drivers
(NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT on a Hp Pavilion dv7 laptop with WIN 7) which were very old (12. 2009). After updating the driver to the newest version (9.18.13.623 - 8.2012) flash and ff work normally, even with hardware acceleration and protected mode on.
In short: it might be a good idea to check the video drivers. Of course I have no idea if this works on other hardware or OS.
Hope this helps,
m

[patrickjdempsey]

Thank you for letting us know your situation mitjacv. You might want to send a letter to Mozilla using the interface Help > Submit Feedback. They won't email you back, but that information will be useful to them.

[The Old Bear]

It appears that the update to the NVIDIA drivers fixed the problem for me. And, boy, it was a miserable problem which had Firefox 15.0.1 after updating to Flash 14.4.402. Firefox would freeze when it encountered various sites with random embedded Flash. (Because the Flash was frequently in a dropped-in ad, it was virtually impossible to predict which sites would cause the problem and when.)

My system is:
HP model a6757c
MS-Windowns 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1
AMD Phenom 9150e Quad-Core Processor
7.0GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE nForce 240

You can check your driver version by going to
Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > NVIDIA Control Panel

I am now running NVIDIA driver Version 306.23

Thanks for the heads-up on this one.

[patrickjdempsey]

(Because the Flash was frequently in a dropped-in ad, it was virtually impossible to predict which sites would cause the problem and when.)

AdBlock Plus can filter those out, which is very helpful when having Flash problems.

[mitjacv]

Is it possible that this problem occurs on machines with NVIDIA graphic cards? I have the latest ff and flash at my job working without problems. But here it's a HP laptop with ATI Mobility Radeon HD 6370 also with an old driver dated in 8.2010.
m

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