Firefox ESR involuntary update

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kltpzyxmrm
Posts: 129
Joined: June 16th, 2015, 10:59 am

Re: Firefox ESR involuntary update

Post by kltpzyxmrm »

Hello Brummelchen,

You are assuming a lot of facts not in evidence. Lets clear things up for others who may be confused or misled by some of these remarks
Brummelchen wrote:out of curiosity - ESR ___never___ would update to another final nor beta.
I can't imagine why you would have a "grudge" against Firefox ESR. For me, it's just a personal preference right now, until I feel I can customize Quantum in a manner that is acceptable for my purposes, and that time should be coming soon. I am happy to say that although Quantum will never be like what we have been accustomed to in the past, it is far more flexible that I believe we were all led to expect, thanks to the great guys who hung in there and continued to develop addons and tweaks to give Quantum a familiar look, feel, and function.

ESR is perfectly fine and appropriate for use, and will be until the time when it is no longer given security updates.

ESR in and of itself is not a factor in the the problems I have presented here.
Brummelchen wrote:you have a messed up profile - i guess you had tried out before the 57beta/58beta on your current (portable) profile instead using another one an stepped back to esr because you did not like quantum.
Wrong. My "profiles are in good working order. Respectfully, I don't believe you have read my posts carefully.
Brummelchen wrote: another guess that you are using some kind of stupid software updater - those programs can update without any hint and can cause that too. third option may that you have installed firefox as default browser beside a portable build - external programs calling links use the installed, not the portable build.
No. No. No.

I don't consider myself a Firefox expert, but I've been using it for years and have learned a few things along the way from guys like "The Rube", so at this point I think it's necessary to clear things up for those that are less experienced with Firefox.

I repeat. I use a method introduced here, almost 4 years ago, by "the-edmeister", whereby a "portable" version of of Firefox is created by "extracting" the contents of the Firefox installer.
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic ... &t=2821799

I have extracted versions of Firefox ESR, 58.0.2, and 59.0 RC 4.

By doing so (or by using a pre-made portable version of Firefox), the user can locate the contents of the the installer in a folder anywhere the user desires...in my case, a separate data partition, away from the operating system partition. I try keep the operating system light and clean, so any chance I get to use a "portable" version of anything, I do so.

I also use Macrium to create system images. The less you have installed on the OS, the less tweaks and program updates necessary to perform when restoring an image created in the past.

Another few thing that needs to be emphasized regarding this type of extracted portable scenario is that the Firefox install directories and profile directories are completely separate entities and may be placed virtually anywhere the user desires. The relationship of the browser and the profile is managed by use of the "Profile Manager" as in the following description by "The Rube"
therube wrote:Use separate Profiles for different FF versions.
Add a -P switch to your desktop shortcuts to open the specific Profile associated with the specific FF version.
I currently have 16 Firefox profiles, each with its' own purpose, and each suited to a particular version of Firefox.

It seems there is another important misconception I need to point out:

The concept of the Firefox executable involuntarily and automatically updating itself was never proposed by me.

The "profile" is where all changes occur. No user action in the portable scenario could alter the install directory. It is the profile (in this type of situation it is always the one that was previously in use) that is being altered when the browser is launched by the external forces I originally mentioned. When this happens, Help>About Firefox in the launched browser will show Quantum stable as the version being used.

However, when the browser is closed, and the same profile is opened directly by the Firefox ESR shortcut with the -p switch (a.k.a. the profile manager), the browser appearance is clearly different and it is apparent it is Firefox ESR, which is confirmed again by checking Help>About Firefox.
Brummelchen wrote:so you are recommend to tell more/all about your system but as i stated that never could happen from alone - never!
It does happen, and not only to me. Like I said, you need to go back and re-read this thread. Not only my posts, but also posts by others far more knowledgeable than me.
Brummelchen wrote:firefox wont update from alone if you uncheck the proper update option:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/ad ... ox-updates
Since you don't use ESR, how can you come to that conclusion. Checking "Never check for updates" is standard operating procedure for me. No exceptions.
therube wrote:
if the browser is closed, windows/firefox remembers the last method used to open the browser
Your default browser is your default browser.
Windows knows what your default browser is.
If some action occurs that causes your browser to open, it will open your default browser.
Well, that's why I'm here, and the basis to my search for a solution.
therube wrote:Close all browsers, drop to a command prompt & type in:

Code: Select all

C:/>   START http://www.google.com
Whatever opens is your default browser.
That had no effect

Image
therube wrote:FF (by default) remembers your last opened Profile.

Say your default browser is FF 58, your last opened Profile was with FF 52 & its associated Profile, 52_Profile, & you have since closed all browsers.
IMO, this is not about the "default" browser in the classic sense. Yes, the "default" browser, Firefox, is being opened (not Edge, IE, etc.), but not Firefox ESR, if that happens to be the "default" version.

But none of this applies with a portable Firefox and the use of the profile manager. The "default" browser should be the last version used. That's how it's always been in the past. However, with ESR, that clearly not the case. We've seen this type of behavior in the past, where Mozilla gets overzealous about version updates (not that I'm stating that's what happenin' now...jussst sayin' :wink:)

The tweaks you gave me helped a lot.

The worst possible scenario when it happens is that you have to restore a backup profile and update the addons. In reality, in my setup, this is no more than an annoyance, but often an inconvenient time wasting one that invariably happens when I'm in a hurry.

I'm grateful to find some answers, but I'd still like to know if it's possible to reverse whatever change occurred in the profile.
Last edited by kltpzyxmrm on March 9th, 2018, 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
kltpzyxmrm
Posts: 129
Joined: June 16th, 2015, 10:59 am

Re: Firefox ESR involuntary update

Post by kltpzyxmrm »

So, here's something?

In windows 10>settings>default apps, under web browser it shows three firefox entries, but all are simply listed as "Firefox", no version information.

How do you determine which is which beside trial and error? Can individual entries here be removed?
allande
Posts: 188
Joined: July 20th, 2017, 11:58 am

Re: Firefox ESR involuntary update

Post by allande »

Default browser is a windows setting. Last used profile in profiles.ini is a different, Firefox setting. A few comments you may already have thought of:
I don't think, since your profiles all already have the update setting turned off, that Firefox versions are actually updating in your problem. I suspect the version in each installed directory is staying the same.
What is happening is that the wrong profile opens with the wrong version, and once that does the extensions are disabled. Launching with the wrong profile should not happen when you use a shortcut with the -P setting, but it certainly can if you do either of these 2 things:
Click on a Firefox icon that is pinned to the task bar or that is in the start menu.
Or, have the default browser set to any Firefox and do anything that invokes the default browser - some software installations open a pop-up window in a browser (the default browser) , links from an email client or chat client open in the default browser, some windows functions like Cortana might launch the default browser.
To avoid those two cases, I would suggest - do not pin Firefox to the task bar, check your shortcuts to make sure they all have a -P, and, unless you have a reason not to, set the default browser to some random browser other than Firefox. Also, run the profile manager once and uncheck the option to "don't ask at startup." Then, your -P shortcuts should still work without asking, but if something accidentally runs Firefox it will give you a chance to close without running the wrong profile.
Brummelchen
Posts: 4480
Joined: March 19th, 2005, 10:51 am

Re: Firefox ESR involuntary update

Post by Brummelchen »

out of curiosity - ESR ___never___ would update to another final nor beta.

I can't imagine why you would have a "grudge" against Firefox ESR.
ESR is a valid firefox build. my words dont touch that state - what i said is just technically a ESR never would or could upgrade to anothjer current beta or final, only the next ESR.
you have a messed up profile

Wrong. My "profiles are in good working order.
some users made changes to get the current beta or nightly when screwing the update path in prefs. that may be an explanation for false update policy. you can check that when opening help > about firefox (beta or nightly channel). and users often forget that they have mad such changes and in most cases thy wonder not to get the latest final rather the the next current beta.
Since you don't use ESR, how can you come to that conclusion. Checking "Never check for updates" is standard operating procedure for me. No exceptions.
it dont need ESR to verify firefox behavior since i am using firefox. this option is set since ages (firefox 2 or 3), for firefox and addons. and it works. it has nothing to do with esr.
it happens only, when i start a fresh profile of an outdated version, that firefox is loading the upgrade and install it. the maintenance servixe is just a helper application to perform the upgrade but the update itself is fired from firefox. you wont find any other experienced user which is telling other story.
However, when the browser is closed, and the same profile is opened directly by the Firefox ESR shortcut with the -p switch (a.k.a. the profile manager), the browser appearance is clearly different and it is apparent it is Firefox ESR
this would say that someone is mixing up firefox versions with one profile - "you wont find any other experienced user which is" recommending this - anytime separated profiles. but this wont let firefox update from alone as long the settings a made - this pref never had changed in years.
has to be c:\start http://www.google.com
ofc / must fail
Windows knows what your default browser is.
windows 10 refused settings made in firefox - you have to set firefox as default browser in windows 10 manually. (dont know why, maybe security reason)
In windows 10>settings>default apps, under web browser it shows three firefox entries, but all are simply listed as "Firefox", no version information.
thats correct - firefox set the appropriate registry settings and you have to chose manually firefox as the default browser.
3 entries means 3 separate installations in 3 different folders.
check out registry in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Clients\StartMenuInternet

to rephrase - it is not the regular behavior of firefox to upgrade any esr to another build. if that would be mozilla has made a big error but at least you two are the only one with such failure.

about:healthreport
Version -> 52.6.0
Update-Kanal -> esr
Aktualisierung -> auf Anforderung
tools -> about firefox -> 52.6.0, update channel -> esr -> "Firefox ist aktuell"
this is a test with my profile from v54 (it wont work with a profile from v55)

at least
I currently have 16 Firefox profiles, each with its' own purpose, and each suited to a particular version of Firefox.
i am pretty sure you have a mismatch between firefox and used profiles. yourself wrote that you mix up firefox builds on one profile.
However, when the browser is closed, and the same profile is opened directly by the Firefox ESR shortcut with the -p switch (a.k.a. the profile manager), the browser appearance is clearly different and it is apparent it is Firefox ESR, which is confirmed again by checking Help>About Firefox.
this is leading to nowhere - and this thread is looping as long you mix it up.
User avatar
therube
Posts: 21685
Joined: March 10th, 2004, 9:59 pm
Location: Maryland USA

Re: Firefox ESR involuntary update

Post by therube »

kltpzyxmrm wrote:
Close all browsers, drop to a command prompt & type in:

C:/> START http://www.google.com

Whatever opens is your default browser.
That had no effect
In your case, you were already at a C: prompt [C:\WINDOWS\system32>, as it was], so when you actually typed in C:\>, that was superfluous, affecting your outcome.
So leave off the "C:\>" part & just type in (from a C: prompt), "START http://www.google.com".
Fire 750, bring back 250.
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.19) Gecko/20110420 SeaMonkey/2.0.14 Pinball CopyURL+ FetchTextURL FlashGot NoScript
kltpzyxmrm
Posts: 129
Joined: June 16th, 2015, 10:59 am

Re: Firefox ESR involuntary update

Post by kltpzyxmrm »

It turns out that the final piece of the puzzle was establishing the default browser among the three Firefox entries in the Windows 10 > default apps >web browser setting. Not being able to establish which entry was the ESR is a pain. The only way was thru trial and error, but it finally worked. I was hoping there was an easier way to that. There should be.
Brummelchen wrote:thats correct - firefox set the appropriate registry settings and you have to chose manually firefox as the default browser.
3 entries means 3 separate installations in 3 different folders.
check out registry in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Clients\StartMenuInternet
There is nothing in that registry key related to Firefox.
therube wrote:In your case, you were already at a C: prompt [C:\WINDOWS\system32>, as it was], so when you actually typed in C:\>, that was superfluous, affecting your outcome.
So leave off the "C:\>" part & just type in (from a C: prompt), "START http://www.google.com".
That now works as well as clicking on an internet shortcut, etc. when the browser is closed. Both types of initiation brings up the profile manager with the correct profile highlighted and a profile that is launched without being altered.

To recap, thanks to (in no particular order) "the rube" & "the-edmeister" for their expertise and the following suggestions that worked for me:

Globally Disable FF Update - System-wide
therube wrote:Set your instalDir to read-only.
therube wrote:Similarly...

Code: Select all

C:\Users\{username}\AppData\Local\Mozilla\updates\{guid}\updates\0
C:\Users\{username}\AppData\Local\Mozilla\updates\

may have multiple {guid} subdirectories.
Seems "trash" (updates; partially downloaded, fully downloaded; partial or full .mar) has a tendency to accumulate in there.

Their very existence, depending on circumstances, probably relates to some claims of "I turned off updates, but FF still updated me", so (IMO) zapping that entire \updates\ sudirectory structure can't hurt.
the-edmeister wrote:yanking the guts of the updater from Firefox as soon as I "zip install it", I null the updates URL via my user.js file:
Remove the following files from the install directory: updater.exe, updater.ini, update-settings.ini
the-edmeister wrote:As far as unexpected or unwanted updates, in addition to yanking the guts of the updater from Firefox as soon as I "zip install it", I null the updates URL via my user.js file:

Code: Select all

// turn off application updates:
user_pref("app.update.enabled", false);
user_pref("app.update.url", " ");
therube wrote:Use separate Profiles for different FF versions.
Add a -P switch to your desktop shortcuts to open the specific Profile associated with the specific FF version.

Also, in profiles.ini, you want to set StartWithLastProfile to 0.

Code: Select all

[General]
StartWithLastProfile=0
And finally, establishing the default browser among the three Firefox entries in the Windows 10 > default apps >web browser setting.

That's about it.

In conclusion,
Brummelchen wrote: ESR is a valid firefox build. my words dont touch that state - what i said is just technically a ESR never would or could upgrade to anothjer current beta or final, only the next ESR.
When you said "never", I misinterpreted. I thought that was a criticism of ESR and it's users. My apologies for that.

Finally, to videobruce, you have been treated badly here for no good reason. Not that there is ever a good reason, but I think you know what I mean :roll:
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