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Storm Ryder
 
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Post Posted February 18th, 2018, 7:16 am

When I started my internet connection to launch my version of Firefox 50.0.2 I could not launch due to an automatic update. Is Mozilla attempting to do what Microsoft did with Windows 10? I have had it with Firefox if this cannot be fixed. My extensions and themes are no longer compatible. How to change back without getting screwed?

tomatoshadow2

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Post Posted February 18th, 2018, 7:36 am

Do you have automatic update turned on? Though it is recommend to keep automatic updates on to stay safe online. Has this ever happened before?

DanRaisch
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Post Posted February 18th, 2018, 11:56 am

Version 50.0.2 was long out of date and a security risk. If you don't want to use version 58, you could revert to the Extended Support Release (ESR) version 52. https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/o ... tions/all/
Using this version should restore your use of the extensions.
Backup your profile before doing any installation at this point. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Profile_backup
Then close all applications and reboot the computer.
Download a new copy of the full installer from www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all
Then close all applications and reboot the computer.
Delete the directory C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox (or C:\Program Files (x86)\Firefox is you have the 32bit version installed)
Run the installer.

smsmith
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Post Posted February 18th, 2018, 3:04 pm

And unfortunately, going backwards from v58 to ESR52.x could cause loss or corruption of the favicons of your bookmarks. Not the end of the world, but something to be aware of. There may be other breakage going backwards that I am not recalling at the moment.

In the worst case, you may have to create a new profile and then migrate from the old to the new profile.
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Profile_manager
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Migrating_set ... ew_profile
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The Mechanic

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Post Posted February 18th, 2018, 5:17 pm

Excuse me? I fully understand the thinking behind recommending that people unhappy with the current Firefox releases that 'wish to go back' and users here giving directions to 'try the ESR Firefox' to go back BUT seldom has anyone written that this solution ends in a few months. Like "poof!" So that their 'problems' will return very soon.

That, IMHO, will be more difficult to explain than today.

Your thoughts?

the-edmeister

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Post Posted February 18th, 2018, 11:19 pm

Storm Ryder wrote:When I started my internet connection to launch my version of Firefox 50.0.2 I could not launch due to an automatic update. Is Mozilla attempting to do what Microsoft did with Windows 10? I have had it with Firefox if this cannot be fixed. My extensions and themes are no longer compatible. How to change back without getting screwed?


Not quite the same thing with Firefox as with Windows10 or even early versions of Windows. I don't "buy" new PC's with Windows pre-installed along with a ton of other pre-installed sofware that I don't need or want "crippling it right out of the box". I build my own PC's and "recycle" certain parts like the case to save money and have "better" PC hardware inside the case.

Mozilla offers a feature Notify me about the update, and ask me what I want to do. - problem is that message seems to 'time out' too quickly and if the user fails to respond Firefox defaults to installing the update with waiting any longer. Next time the user goes to open Firefox the update is installed via the update .MAR package that was downloaded the last time that Firefox was open. And Never check for updates isn't an absolute NO for Windows OS's.

On Windows OS Firefox there is the Mozilla Maintenance Service (MMS) which I suspect has been used periodically to "force" an update that Mozilla wanted to push to installations that were behind the current version quite far. I went thru an episode like that a few years where one after another "old version" all of a sudden got an automatic update installed when I had "updates" completely disabled; or so I thought. I believe that Mozilla found a way to use that service beyond what what it was originally intended to do and what it was originally created for - to help users running non-admin Windows Logon User Accounts more smoothly allow Firefox to update automatically and not need an Admin LUA to be opened to let the update proceed. IMO, a perfectly valid feature, but one that IMO someone at Mozilla 'tweaked' for another nefarious purpose long after that "service" was created and started being used in Firefox. A "quirk" or that service so to speak. My "gut" tells me that MMS had been (IMO) "misused" at an ever increasing frequency over the last 3 years or so since I figured that out on my own PC, based upon the number of user questions in various Firefox Support fora about "why did Firefox update itself when I have updates set to Never check for updates".

I tracked that issue down to the MMS feature and searched my hard drive for the MMS executable file; sure enough when I launched a Firefox version that hadn't yet "been bitten" I launched that version and it totally disregarded my "NO, never update Firefox coding" in the Profile and proceeded to install the latest Firefox version automatically. At that time I had every version that was released since mid-2008 (since I built that PC) into 2014 installed, each with its own Profile so that only one version could use that Profile, and all usable from a menu in the Start button from the Desktop.

Then I tried with another installation that had the MMS executable file, and deleted the 2 files that are associated with MMS. I then opened that Firefox installed and "saw" in my Router log that Firefox try to retrieve and update, but it wouldn't install with MMS "missing". With that I decided to just "isolate" most of my Firefox installations from the "Updates service".

I "isolated" my numerous Firefox program installations using this pref app.update.url which I erased the Update URL string value address and shut that crap off entirely. No more "surprises" on that PC and with my current PC for the last few years now. Coded into a user.js file that I place in every new Firefox Profile that I create to save me time when setting up each new Profile; plus it eliminates issues if I should skip a step in the process.

As far as sticking with an older version of Firefox, and forgoing Quantum now, keep in mind that support for ESR 52 currently is slated to end on 08-21-2018 when Firefox 62 is released, and Security patches for ESR 52 comes to a conclusion. That "end" has been put off once already, so I wouldn't count on any reprieve beyond then. So if Quantum isn't "in the cards" for you, it's time to find a different browser to use.

Users do have a choice for other Gecko-based web browsers, which were built on pre-Quantum Firefox code; but the "pickens" are slim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... nformation -- look in the "Current layout engine" column for Gecko. And the Goanna layout engine web browsers are what I would recommend taking for a "test drive". The first one is what I am "test driving" now. My concern is how long the small number of developers they have working on Goanna will be able to keep it going ...
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therube

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Post Posted February 20th, 2018, 2:22 pm

Tinsmith wrote:BUT seldom has anyone written that this solution ends in a few months. Like "poof!" So that their 'problems' will return very soon.

That, IMHO, will be more difficult to explain than today.

Not sure what you're trying to say (or even where the thought came from), but it is the case, come (August I think it is), 52 ESR ends & would be updated to 60 ESR (I think it is) [& 60 brings with it the end everything extension, UI, of old, & "updates" you to Quantum & webextensions].
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The Mechanic

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Post Posted February 20th, 2018, 3:42 pm

therube wrote:
Tinsmith wrote:BUT seldom has anyone written that this solution ends in a few months. Like "poof!" So that their 'problems' will return very soon.

That, IMHO, will be more difficult to explain than today.

Not sure what you're trying to say (or even where the thought came from), but it is the case, come (August I think it is), 52 ESR ends & would be updated to 60 ESR (I think it is) [& 60 brings with it the end everything extension, UI, of old, & "updates" you to Quantum & webextensions].



Okay. I'll try again.

Per your post you, and others, are aware that when the Firefox 52.x ESR is replaced by Firefox 60.x ESR that that Firefox will no longer run 'my 50 I can't live without them' extensions. Just like the Firefox from 57.x on that I hate so much!!! And then begins the explaining that the solution was only temporary. The key word here is "temporary". I have not seen many, more like almost none, posts that explain that.

Get it now? This time when they write to complain what will the answers be ???

Frank Lion

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Post Posted February 20th, 2018, 4:18 pm

The Tinsmith wrote:Excuse me? I fully understand the thinking behind recommending that people unhappy with the current Firefox releases that 'wish to go back' and users here giving directions to 'try the ESR Firefox' to go back BUT seldom has anyone written that this solution ends in a few months.

I know I certainly mentioned the end date every time I mentioned FF 52ESR - viewtopic.php?p=14764984#p14764984 and loads of other links.

Mind you, I was being asked about this from mid last year onwards and even when 57 hit, it still made sense as a stop gap. Doubt I'd bother suggesting ESR now with March coming up though.

Did make sense to suggest it then though, especially as third party browsers were being relentlessly pimped as 'the salvation' from 57. Less than 3 months after 57 hit, I can think of two of them that have already dramatically changed their plans. As I figured they would have to.

Changing browsers, if that's what people want to do, is always a steep learning curve, so I figured people might as well sit back and rest awhile on ESR, just to see how things panned out on what they were being promised on the alternatives.
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The Mechanic

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Post Posted February 20th, 2018, 4:57 pm

I know I certainly mentioned the end date every time I mentioned FF 52ESR


I know that you have. And I recall a few others. What I was trying to say was that the 'mentions' have gotten fewer and further between.

And very soon these people that switched to ESR releases as a 'go to deity' solution are going to be really confused when that happens.

I did not intend to criticize anyone for trying to help and offer solutions. But I think it is a big mistake to not clearly explain that 'the problem you have now' will return. And when. And then offer information on finding a future solution.

The information about the future death and temporary solution ending needs to be given at the beginning. I often see what appears to be a 'I got the answer and have lost interest' and I'm leaving.

My 2 cents.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted February 20th, 2018, 5:40 pm

The Tinsmith wrote:
I know I certainly mentioned the end date every time I mentioned FF 52ESR


I know that you have. And I recall a few others. What I was trying to say was that the 'mentions' have gotten fewer and further between.

Yeah, the expiration date of FF 52ESR really does need to be mentioned every single time, especially as we get closer to that date.

It is important for people to fully understand that 52ESR is not an alternative to 57+, but more a fairly short 'breathing space' from it, during which time people need to figure what they are going to use after 52ESR.
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smsmith
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Post Posted February 20th, 2018, 6:14 pm

Does ESR do auto updates at major release time, or does it require the user to uninstall the old version and install the new version?
Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime.
I like poetry, long walks on the beach and poking dead things with a stick.
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The Mechanic

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Post Posted February 20th, 2018, 6:15 pm


It is important for people to fully understand that 52ESR is not an alternative to 57+, but more a fairly short 'breathing space' from it, during which time people need to figure what they are going to use after 52ESR.


This is my thinking. I am old enough <smile> that I remember manual typewriters. I remember my mother's husband 'pecking' at the keys of his Commodore 64. One at a time. My mother never did really learn to use an ATM.

There are to very nice elderly ladies that live two houses down and when their "Great-Grandson" visits he 'fixes' the computer so that stuff like Skype still works.

Not everyone is a tech person. :-)

Something else that I see often is a barrage of confusing 'try this' help. That can confuse some. As well as what I often see as 'above the head' of the person help. The 'edit this' and open that and change this' stuff.

So? Am I OT yet?

The Mechanic

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Post Posted February 20th, 2018, 7:20 pm

smsmith wrote:Does ESR do auto updates at major release time, or does it require the user to uninstall the old version and install the new version?


The ESR acts just like the regular releases. Fixes and patches but no 'new stuff'.

Kevin McFarlane
 
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Post Posted February 21st, 2018, 3:57 am

I think smsmith is asking whether ESR auto-updates to the major release (60 ESR or whatever) when that's due or do you have to uninstall the current version first?

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