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Clearing cookies - are they really gone?

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lumpydumpy
 
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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 4:33 am

Using Opera - if I clear all cookies/data it will log me out of any websites I am logged into. This is surely the expected behaviour - since the relevant cookies delivered by those sites are now gone.

If I perform the same action on firefox clearing all cookies and data - so that there are no visible traces of any data in the browser visible to me, I remain logged in to sites.

So what is happening here - and what can explain the difference in behaviour? Is Firefox just not clearing all the data as it says?

DanRaisch
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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 5:08 am

Are you closing and restarting Firefox after clearing the cookies?

lumpydumpy
 
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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 5:21 am

You are right of course - closing the browser seems to work - and logs me out.

However - if you compare the behaviours between firefox and opera - then what is going on? Sometimes I don't want to close the browser (I may be working in or with other tabs - and that is a grand pain). Opera does what I expect clearing data to do... by clearing all the data. Firefox *appears* as if it is pretending to clear all data - showing me that it has - but not actually doing so.

DanRaisch
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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 5:39 am

Firefox is not pretending to clear things, it does clear them but not until the browser is closed. Which is what I could expect so that one would not be logged out of sites one is viewing during the current session. To me it's a matter of expectations rather than an actual problem.

lumpydumpy
 
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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 5:49 am

I do take your point around the user-preference in terms of the behaviour.

But I'd have to differ around "expected behaviour".... In Firefox - when I clear all data - it shows me boxes that are empty. Indicating that all data is gone - that there is no data in my browser. But as it turns out - there is data in the browser... If there is a log-in cookie there - what else is sitting there still active, but unseen, if I do not (or forget to) close my browser? Are all cookies still active and present - am i still logged in to Google and Facebook - still being followed - until I close the browser? If so - why not have a pop-up message warning me of that?

DanRaisch
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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 6:01 am

when I clear all data - it shows me boxes that are empty. Indicating that all data is gone - that there is no data in my rowser.

And that's what I'm referring to as "expectations". The empty boxes don't indicate that the data is gone and no longer functional in the current session. They indicate what will be gone after the browser is restarted, which is what my expectation of the process would be.

lumpydumpy
 
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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 6:16 am

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think it should display a message indicating that absolutely all data is there - and cookies are active - until you close your browser. Not show empty boxes and expect you to understand that all data is still present.

After all - it gives a strange situation that Opera unambiguously does not. Say for example that I clear all my data on Firefox, but that someone then messages me on, say, Facebook in my browser. The message includes a link. I reply to the message and click on the link - collecting new cookies. Now, which cookies get deleted when I close my browser? Will both the old and the newly collected cookies be deleted? Or just the old ones? And are the existing cookies that I have 'cleared' (and which I can no longer see because the box shows as empty) still potentially triggering beacons on the site I have been sent to by my friend?

This is surely not ok?

DanRaisch
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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 6:52 am

Now, which cookies get deleted when I close my browser? Will both the old and the newly collected cookies be deleted? Or just the old ones?[/unquote]
If you review the list of cookies present on the system and delete certain ones or indeed delete all of them, any new cookies arriving after that action will NOT be removed on start up.

And are the existing cookies that I have 'cleared' (and which I can no longer see because the box shows as empty) still potentially triggering beacons on the site I have been sent to by my friend?

That's what I would expect as the elements are still present (in memory?) until restart.

lumpydumpy
 
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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 7:46 am

I'm a firefox fan. But I do think that in this single behaviour - Opera rather has it nailed. At least in terms of clarity for the user. I say that as a constructive comment. No more.

Thank you for replying :)

TheVisitor
 
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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 7:52 am

lumpydumpy wrote:I'm a firefox fan. But I do think that in this single behaviour - Opera rather has it nailed. At least in terms of clarity for the user. I say that as a constructive comment. No more.

Thank you for replying :)


Are you really using Firefox '33' ? The cookie code handling has been changed at least a couple of times between '33' and today's latest build. That could be part of the issue your experiencing.

lumpydumpy
 
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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 8:03 am

Hi. I updated and checked the behaviour before posting here. I use Opera mainly - but periodically check in with Firefox (which I would rather use)... I update Firefox and check this behaviour - hoping for it to change.

To be clear, here are the steps. 1) Set all settings to maximum privacy EXCEPT - I allow cookies from the sites I visit. 2) Then I log into something from the browser, say, facebook. 3) Then open preferences and clear all data of any kind and check the 'manage data' box to confirm that no data is present. 4) Then go back to the tab where I am logged in. 5) The site reloads, and I am still logged in.

If you try the exact same procedure on Opera, for a comparison, you will see that at step 5, you are now logged out.

TheVisitor
 
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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 8:17 am

I don't know what you updated to... but your UserAgent is still showing '33' I would suggest you try a new 'test profile'.

lumpydumpy
 
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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 8:20 am

Heh - I am actually on Chrome right now (despite what my user agent might say ;-) )

lumpydumpy
 
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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 8:21 am

TheVisitor wrote:I don't know what you updated to... but your UserAgent is still showing '33' I would suggest you try a new 'test profile'.


Sorry - should clarify - I am not posting this from within Firefox. But if you test the steps I have laid out you will see the behaviour in the latest version of Firefox vs latest version of Opera.

therube

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Post Posted January 10th, 2019, 11:07 am

Other then Cookies, there is 'Authenticated Sessions' that may need to be cleared (from the Clear Private Data dialog).
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.19) Gecko/20110420 SeaMonkey/2.0.14 Pinball CopyURL+ FetchTextURL FlashGot NoScript

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