MozillaZine

OK in Windows safe mode - won't load normally

User Help for Mozilla Firefox
jbraner
 
Posts: 34
Joined: January 3rd, 2008, 3:14 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Post Posted November 6th, 2019, 12:24 pm

Hi,

Firefox has been working fine here for many years.
windows 10 x 64
Last week, suddenly both Thunderbird and Firefox stopped working. (I'll open a Thunderbird thread too, as it's slightly different)

In Windows safe mode - Firefox works fine.
In normal Windows - it used to load once, and then not a second time (I'll get to that), now it doesn't load at all.

The thing is - it starts a process but cannot kill it. So when it used to start, it wouldn't reload, because (I think) it thinks it's already running. it gives the message that the old process must be closed.
I can't kill these processes - it says "access denied".

Now it doesn't really start at all - even in (Firefox) safe mode.
It starts a process though - so it's starting to load, but it's not getting far enough.
If I try again, though, it will give the message that it's already running.
Image

I've tried all the re-installs etc etc - but it's too much of a coincidence that both Firefox and Thunderbird broke at the same time.
It must be a Windows issue.
Nothing much has changed, and the only Windows updates recently were .NET ones - which shouldn't really affect this.

The other weird thing is - I've restored images from a few weeks ago (when everything was fine) and I still get the same problem.

Has anyone seen anything like this before? Or am I on my own ;-)

I've tried all the fixes I could fine (parent.lock etc) but it basically comes down to this:
1 - both Thunderbird and Firefox, if they can be persuaded to load once, will never load again (until a reboot) because they can't kill the process from the previous load.
2 - it happened to both Thunderbird and Firefox at the exact same time.

Thanks for any ideas.
===========
John Braner

DanRaisch
Moderator

User avatar
 
Posts: 122204
Joined: September 23rd, 2004, 8:57 pm
Location: Somewhere on the right coast

Post Posted November 6th, 2019, 12:35 pm

What security software are you running on that system?

jbraner
 
Posts: 34
Joined: January 3rd, 2008, 3:14 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Post Posted November 6th, 2019, 2:00 pm

Hi Dan,

It's Kaspersky Total Security, and also Malwarebytes (just updated to ver 4, but makes no change).
The thing is - everything was working perfectly like this until a week ago.
===========
John Braner

malliz
Folder@Home

User avatar
 
Posts: 43853
Joined: December 7th, 2002, 4:34 am
Location: Australia

Post Posted November 6th, 2019, 5:10 pm

Do you have any extensions installed?
What sort of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.
"Terry Pratchett"

Mouse4
 
Posts: 672
Joined: December 27th, 2017, 4:03 am
Location: Australia

Post Posted November 6th, 2019, 6:03 pm

just a guess, this is the problem It's Kaspersky Total Security

Try allowing Firefox access in that Program

jbraner
 
Posts: 34
Joined: January 3rd, 2008, 3:14 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Post Posted November 7th, 2019, 2:57 am

Mouse4 - you may be on to something.

I have literally tried pausing Kaspersky, and it still wouldn't start.
I went in to application control and deleted all references to Thunderbird and Firefox - and it seems to be working OK.
(there's no good reason for this, as it should also work when Kaspersky isn't even running - perhaps something was cached)
I will see if this lasts.
===========
John Braner

DanRaisch
Moderator

User avatar
 
Posts: 122204
Joined: September 23rd, 2004, 8:57 pm
Location: Somewhere on the right coast

Post Posted November 7th, 2019, 4:49 am

Pausing a security software may only mean "pausing" the visible user interface but not the underlying scanning/blocking activity. Often it's only a total uninstall (using the vendor's tools for that purpose) that will stop all action by that security application when running under Windows standard mode.

LIMPET235
Moderator

User avatar
 
Posts: 38860
Joined: October 19th, 2007, 1:53 am
Location: The South Coast of N.S.W. Oz.

Post Posted November 7th, 2019, 5:58 am

Hi John,
Best guess here...
Your Kaspersky T S had an update (in the back ground?) or you updated both Firefox &
Thunderbird & KTS did not recognise the "New" versions as legitimate/allowed programs
& did it's thing & stopped both from running.

Your Action of removing all references to both programs let KTS "find the new versions."

Happens quite a lot with some security programs.
They just do NOT notify the user of the block.

Thanks for the feedback.
Ancient Amateur Astronomer
Win-7-HP/Intel® DualCore-2.0GHz/500G HDD/4 Gig Ram/550Watt PSU/350WattUPS/Firefox-20.0-62.0-70.0/T-bird-2.0.0.24/SnagIt-v10.0.1/MWP-7.12.
(Always choose the "Custom" Install.)

jbraner
 
Posts: 34
Joined: January 3rd, 2008, 3:14 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Post Posted November 7th, 2019, 12:01 pm

Unfortunately I got greedy and did the same for my icloud client settings (in Kaspersky).
This screwed it up so I had to restore an image (I've been doing a lot of this).
Now the same trick doesn't work any more :-/
I'm trying a complete uninstall of Kaspersky...
===========
John Braner

jbraner
 
Posts: 34
Joined: January 3rd, 2008, 3:14 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Post Posted November 7th, 2019, 2:23 pm

DanRaisch wrote:Pausing a security software may only mean "pausing" the visible user interface but not the underlying scanning/blocking activity. Often it's only a total uninstall (using the vendor's tools for that purpose) that will stop all action by that security application when running under Windows standard mode.


Best guess here...
Your Kaspersky T S had an update (in the back ground?) or you updated both Firefox &
Thunderbird & KTS did not recognise the "New" versions as legitimate/allowed programs
& did it's thing & stopped both from running.

Your Action of removing all references to both programs let KTS "find the new versions."

Happens quite a lot with some security programs.
They just do NOT notify the user of the block.


Yep - Kaspersky is definitely causing the problem. When Kaspersky Total Security is uninstalled, everything works fine!
Then when KTS is reinstalled - everything still works fine - until a reboot, then they're broken again!
I'm taking this up with Kaspersky.

Thanks again for the replies.
Last edited by DanRaisch on November 7th, 2019, 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Minor edit for language, even though "disguised".
===========
John Braner

TheVisitor
 
Posts: 4998
Joined: May 13th, 2012, 10:43 am

Post Posted November 7th, 2019, 4:48 pm

jbraner wrote:
DanRaisch wrote:Pausing a security software may only mean "pausing" the visible user interface but not the underlying scanning/blocking activity. Often it's only a total uninstall (using the vendor's tools for that purpose) that will stop all action by that security application when running under Windows standard mode.


Best guess here...
Your Kaspersky T S had an update (in the back ground?) or you updated both Firefox &
Thunderbird & KTS did not recognise the "New" versions as legitimate/allowed programs
& did it's thing & stopped both from running.

Your Action of removing all references to both programs let KTS "find the new versions."

Happens quite a lot with some security programs.
They just do NOT notify the user of the block.


Yep - Kaspersky is definitely causing the problem. When Kaspersky Total Security is uninstalled, everything works fine!
Then when KTS is reinstalled - everything still works fine - until a reboot, then they're broken again!
I'm taking this up with Kaspersky.

Thanks again for the replies.


Have you tried this?
Disable HTTPS connection tests in the Kaspersky Lab antivirus

Open the program by clicking in the upper part of the Windows task panel.
Go to Settings. ...
Go to Advanced → Network.
In the Encrypted connections scanning section, switch on the Do not scan encrypted connections option.

Some AV's including KAS, there is man-in-the-middle certificate that Firefox does not like as it blocks end-to-end certificate communications.

jbraner
 
Posts: 34
Joined: January 3rd, 2008, 3:14 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Post Posted November 8th, 2019, 4:48 am

Have you tried this?
Disable HTTPS connection tests in the Kaspersky Lab antivirus

Open the program by clicking in the upper part of the Windows task panel.
Go to Settings. ...
Go to Advanced → Network.
In the Encrypted connections scanning section, switch on the Do not scan encrypted connections option.

Some AV's including KAS, there is man-in-the-middle certificate that Firefox does not like as it blocks end-to-end certificate communications.


Thanks for the suggestion - it's still pretty much the same.
===========
John Braner

TheVisitor
 
Posts: 4998
Joined: May 13th, 2012, 10:43 am

Post Posted November 8th, 2019, 5:58 am

jbraner wrote:
Have you tried this?
Disable HTTPS connection tests in the Kaspersky Lab antivirus

Open the program by clicking in the upper part of the Windows task panel.
Go to Settings. ...
Go to Advanced → Network.
In the Encrypted connections scanning section, switch on the Do not scan encrypted connections option.

Some AV's including KAS, there is man-in-the-middle certificate that Firefox does not like as it blocks end-to-end certificate communications.


Thanks for the suggestion - it's still pretty much the same.


Another quick thought - after you turned off SSL scanning did you try Restarting your System ? I'm not sure if the change is immediate.

jbraner
 
Posts: 34
Joined: January 3rd, 2008, 3:14 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Post Posted November 8th, 2019, 6:04 am

Hi TheVisitor - yeah, I've restarted the system.

Kaspersky has been working fine for me - but when something goes wrong, it's too hard to find where the problem is.
Also, when you disable it (pause or disable some of the options) it doesn't seem to really disable anything.

I just updated from KTS 2019 to KTS 2020 (they don't care if you update the app, as long as your license file is OK) and again - everything works great when it forst loads, and then stops after reboot. (itunes stopped after running once)
===========
John Braner

TheVisitor
 
Posts: 4998
Joined: May 13th, 2012, 10:43 am

Post Posted November 8th, 2019, 8:05 am

jbraner wrote:Hi TheVisitor - yeah, I've restarted the system.

Kaspersky has been working fine for me - but when something goes wrong, it's too hard to find where the problem is.
Also, when you disable it (pause or disable some of the options) it doesn't seem to really disable anything.

I just updated from KTS 2019 to KTS 2020 (they don't care if you update the app, as long as your license file is OK) and again - everything works great when it forst loads, and then stops after reboot. (itunes stopped after running once)


Have you seen this thread https://community.kaspersky.com/kaspers ... hangs-5221
There are a couple of 'prefs' in Firefox you could try changing....

1. See here: https://www.ghacks.net/2019/10/29/firef ... -is-a-fix/
2. security.enterprise_roots.enabled Set to - False Seems that KYS may have set this to 'True'. https://community.kaspersky.com/kaspers ... hangs-5221

Return to Firefox Support


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 15 guests