Server Override local css files ?

User Help for Mozilla Firefox
Locked
CSpace
Guest

Server Override local css files ?

Post by CSpace »

Hi all,

I'm not a FF user but recently was told that FF can override the CSS that a website developer has linked in their HTML pages. So, as a developer, I may have specified text to be Arial 10 pt Black, but a FF user of the site can make it look like whatever they want, essentially overriding the developer's design.

Another thing I was told is that the user's local stylesheet (for lack of a better term - maybe its called userchrome.css or usercontent.css) will ALWAYS override the CSS file on the server... that there is no tweakable setting to have FF just use the CSS in the rendered HTML page coming from the server.
I found it hard to believe that there's no option to not use the local CSS.

Is this true? If so, how can I ever hope to generate consistent-looking pages to all my MAC/FF users if they're own FF browser's local CSS choices are overriding the one's designed into the page itself?

Can someone enlighten me or point me to some links explaining this PLEASE?

Thanks in advance!
Aerofox
Posts: 5
Joined: May 31st, 2007, 7:21 pm
Location: CemrinStudios
Contact:

Post by Aerofox »

The first part is true; Firefox users can override the CSS through the use of the Web Developer Toolbar. From there, a Firefox user can change the CSS on a given page to suit their needs, and even add their own stylesheet. However, from what I've heard, it only lasts for one browser session.

The second statement however, is not true, or at least, for the most part. Sites may display differently depending on how you set up the default font sizes, colors, styles etc. that are already a part of Firefox's accessibility settings. These settings will change the look of the page, but anything else such as an external stylesheet will never (or should never) always override the use of the server's CSS file.

So in summary, if you've told Firefox to use large text to make everything more readable, that will change the look of the site a bit... but it will work with the CSS on the server.

Hope that clears everything out for you. :)
Guest
Guest

Post by Guest »

Any user can override author CSS. userContent.css- or the Stylish extension- can be used to apply CSS on all pages or specific domains or URLs. This is nothing new. The same thing can be accomplished in IE, Opera, and other browsers. It's up to the user to decide if they want to override your CSS. What if a visually impaired user needs different font sizes or colors?

With Greasemonkey, and user scripts for Opera and IE, anyone can use JavaScript to completely change the content and presentation of any page. Once a page is loaded in the browser, it's out of your hands.
Guest
Guest

Post by Guest »

CSS - 3.2 UA Conformance
6. The UA must allow the user to turn off the influence of author style sheets.

and...

UAs must allow users to specify a file that contains the user style sheet. UAs that run on devices without any means of writing or specifying files are exempted from this requirement. Additionally, UAs may offer other means to specify user preferences, for example through a GUI.
CSpace
Guest

Post by CSpace »

Thanks very much for replies. You helped me quickly to understand how FF can be
made to work in this situation.

Aerofox - regarding your comments about my second statement...

Is there a setting (single or multiple) in FF that a website user can elect to make that will turn OFF all client-side manipulations of the rendering the server sent to their browser? (no accessibility features in effect, no master font in effect, no addons or scripts affecting the html stream coming from the server)

Guest - thanks for pointing me to the User Agent Info. It is NOT my intention to enforce my look on everyone. Rather, what I'm trying to accomplish is to NOT have 10 different MAC/FF user tell me the pages look so different to the point where they do NOT like the LOOK of the site and might go away. Most of these users probably have little to no idea that there FF has some of these features in place affecting the way the site renders in their browser.

My ignorance (until now) has led me to rely on asking one or two Mac/FF users how the pages look. When they said, "Cool", I had been under the impression ALL MAC/FF users would also look cool.

Going forward, I will expand my understanding of these issues.

Thanks!
Guest
Guest

Post by Guest »

Most of these users probably have little to no idea that there FF has some of these features in place affecting the way the site renders in their browser.
And the majority of these users aren't going to have CSS that will override your CSS. A person has to knowingly apply user styles in the first place. Firefox doesn't come with pre-installed user CSS. I wouldn't be overly concerned about it. The majority of users aren't doing this. If I add CSS which makes your page look weird, that's my fault and I certainly am not going to blame you. Besides, most of the power uses who do this, do it on a per site basis. The best you can do is test your site with the default settings of each browser. Cross-browser CSS is hard enough without trying to anticipate user styles as well.

As far as fonts go, you can't depend on everyone using the same font or size. A well designed page should be able to accommodate a fairly large range of fonts and sizes. One should also check how their content looks without any CSS.

Accessible CSS:
http://www.webaim.org/techniques/css/
http://tinyurl.com/2hjghr
Anonymosity
Posts: 8779
Joined: May 7th, 2007, 12:07 pm

Post by Anonymosity »

If your settings in your userContent.css file have !important added after them, they will override the settings coming from the web pages, .js files, or stylesheets. Otherwise, they will not. For example, I have a setting in mine to change the colour of links when I hover over them. This setting has !important added, and it overrides the set colour of the link as long as I hover over it. I have another setting to change the background colour of the body of the page. It does not have !important added to it because I only wanted to change the default background. Any web page setting that specifies a background colour will override my setting.
CSpace
Guest

Post by CSpace »

Anonymosity - thanks for that explanation.

So I take it someone could make a body text size setting important. They might make it 22 pt.
I designed 10 pt.

I'm stuck between trying to accomodate those people and just saying, "it's their loss the page looks bad".
User avatar
dickvl
Posts: 54145
Joined: July 18th, 2005, 3:25 am

Post by dickvl »

Firefox supports three methods to specify a website or domain:
@-moz-document domain(www.example.com) {selector {property: value;}}
@-moz-document url-prefix(http://www.example.com/) {selector {property: value;}}
@-moz-document url(http://www.example.com/example.html) {selector { property: value;}}
jeronimo
Posts: 269
Joined: August 5th, 2004, 6:17 am
Location: Cusco, Peru

Post by jeronimo »

I don't see how all this is related to firefox. If you check your settings in IE (in IE7 at least), you will find that it provides a solution to ignore style-sheet settings as well. So regardless of the browser the visitor is using, text-size can always be changed by the visitor (just use ctrl+ or ctrl-, works in IE as well).

Better make sure your page looks nice regardless (small...) changes in text size.
Anonymosity
Posts: 8779
Joined: May 7th, 2007, 12:07 pm

Post by Anonymosity »

Also, do not forget that not everyone uses the browser window maximized.
Some people also set a minimum size for text. The large text will be unaffected, but text that is too small will be enlarged. I use that because I do not appreciate having to squint or use a magnifying glass to read very small print.
CSpace
Guest

Post by CSpace »

I have a follow-up question.

Assuming a user chooses to accept the server's rendering and to NOT override anything, is there a place in Firefox they can go to make an entry for a domain telling Firefox NOT to apply any local css or accessibility fetaures?

Perhaps some exception list entry somewhere?


Thanks!
Anonymosity
Posts: 8779
Joined: May 7th, 2007, 12:07 pm

Post by Anonymosity »

I do not know of any way to do that. In my case, it would not happen. I like my settings, and do not want them overridden.
CSpace
Guest

Post by CSpace »

On this link, http://www.webaim.org/techniques/css/advantage.php, provided by a Guest above, it states, "You can also turn off styles with the FireFox Web Developer Toolbar".

At this point, I just want to be able to tell users who don't realize they're overriding the author's styles if there's a way and how. It would be their choice whether to make the exception or not.

Thanks again for your input.
User avatar
LoudNoise
New Member
Posts: 39900
Joined: October 18th, 2007, 1:45 pm
Location: Next door to the west

Re: Server Override local css files ?

Post by LoudNoise »

A guest- see this rule. faq.php?mode=rules#f41
Your post was edited.
Post wrangler
"Choose between the Food Select Feature or other Functions. If no food or function is chosen, Toast is the default."
Locked