Random Firefox 3 Crashes- Vista Data Execution Prevention

[nxmehta]

Because my DEP was set to check only core Windows services, there is no other option to disable DEP in Vista.

You do NOT want to disable DEP, even if Vista doesn't turn it on by default. It's really an essential security provision, in my opinion. It's unfortunate that a lot of computers don't have it.

I think his point was that it is not possible to disable DEP in Vista, even if one wanted to (which clearly one does not ).

I think I have an idea what's going on, though. Data execution is a questionable practice of storing executable code in the data section of a program, so the program can be modified. The reason it's questionable is that malware is largely based on getting users to run data as code, and if you're going to run these programs you have to turn off DEP. Bad idea. There are some legitimate programs that will trigger DEP. That could include some plugins. Personally, I would get rid of them, no matter what they are.

I suspect that many of you are finding them. As usual, since they are running under Firefox, Firefox gets stuck with the bill. In other words, I'll bet some plugins or maybe extensions are using data as code. Unfortunately, I can't help much, because my computers do not have DEP capability.

Firefox is getting stuck with the bill here because DEP crashes still occur with a clean install, clean profile (no extensions, etc.), and all plugins disabled. I'm not sure how this could be the fault of some erroneous plugin?

To echo the previous poster's comment, it would be great to get a debug build a firefox for windows with all debugging symbols...

[VanillaMozilla]

Firefox is getting stuck with the bill here because DEP crashes still occur with a clean install, clean profile (no extensions, etc.), and all plugins disabled. I'm not sure how this could be the fault of some erroneous plugin?

The plugin is running the code, not Firefox. But because the plugin is running as a .dll under Firefox, the OS shows Firefox as the program that crashes, even though it was plugin code that caused the crash. There's nothing Firefox can do about this except not to run the plugin.

Mind you, this is hypothetical. I don't know for sure that a plugin can access the data segment as code, but I assume it can.

[nxmehta]

Firefox is getting stuck with the bill here because DEP crashes still occur with a clean install, clean profile (no extensions, etc.), and all plugins disabled. I'm not sure how this could be the fault of some erroneous plugin?

The plugin is running the code, not Firefox. But because the plugin is running as a .dll under Firefox, the OS shows Firefox as the program that crashes, even though it was plugin code that caused the crash. There's nothing Firefox can do about this except not to run the plugin.

Mind you, this is hypothetical. I don't know for sure that a plugin can access the data segment as code, but I assume it can.

Wait, so you're saying when all plugins are disabled, plugins are still linked dynamically to the firefox runtime and can still run code? What's the point of disabling a plugin then? What if I just uninstall all plugins from my system? Or I run firefox in safe mode?

[VanillaMozilla]

Wait, so you're saying when all plugins are disabled, plugins are still linked dynamically to the firefox runtime and can still run code? What's the point of disabling a plugin then? What if I just uninstall all plugins from my system? Or I run firefox in safe mode?

1. You may be confusing plugins with extensions. Tools > Addons will show you the difference. Plugins can run even in Firefox safe mode.

2. There are 4 pages of messages here, with lots of people presenting all kinds of crashes. I'm not trying to pinpoint the cause of any one person's crashes, and your cases may all be different.

3. The point is that a DEP exception might represent an exploit attempt, but it might also be due to a nonmalicious plugin, and DEP can't tell the difference. As always, if a plugin (or any other program) tries to use data as code, data execution protection (DEP) will prevent it. That's how DEP works. I think that is what is happening in at least some of these cases. I suspect that it is not a Firefox problem.

4. Because DEP is a major defense that absolutely prevents many of the most dangerous exploits, you need it. And you will not be able to run any programs or plugs that trigger DEP exceptions. You will either have to get rid of them or take a big chance.

[nxmehta]

Wait, so you're saying when all plugins are disabled, plugins are still linked dynamically to the firefox runtime and can still run code? What's the point of disabling a plugin then? What if I just uninstall all plugins from my system? Or I run firefox in safe mode?

1. You may be confusing plugins with extensions. Tools > Addons will show you the difference. Plugins can run even in Firefox safe mode.

No, I'm not confusing plugins with extensions:



See how they're all greyed out? That means they're disabled. Now, if they can still run code, that's news to me?

Look, I don't mean to be too persistent or anything, but I know exactly how DEP works and what it's for, the difference between a plugin/extension, etc. I just don't want to get this passed off as "not a Firefox problem" when it seems that it's not possible (at least in my case) to pass it off as anything but? I would also obviously accept that this is a "Vista problem when running Firefox", which could lay the blame at Vista's feet, but triggering DEP prematurely seems like an unlikely bug in Vista. I don't know how it could mistakenly think that a user app is running code in a protected address space, but hey anything is possible.

I'm of course open to alternate explanations of what's going on, but I haven't seen an adequate one yet.

[VanillaMozilla]

@nxmehta,
OK, so now we have established that you get DEP exceptions with all plugins except Java disabled. I don't think you mentioned that before. I was suggesting one possibility, based on incomplete information. I still think my suggestion may apply in some cases, but I can't see your computers and I can't read minds.

You know, you can easily get a copy of the source code. Go look at the Builds Forum, for a start. There are three possibilities for DEP faults: (1) Firefox is using this dubious programming technique; (2) Web sites are trying to run data as code (bad); or (3) plugins or extensions are using a dubious programming technique (I think you have eliminated that possibility in this case).

[Frederik Misplon]

I'm also having the same problem. Really need a fix asap.

[bad_luck]

I have the same problem too. Firefox crashing zillions time a day, most often in gmail.

[VanillaMozilla]

Unless you specifically are getting Data Execution Protection (DEP) exceptions, you do NOT have the same problem. Go to the Help menu, Contents, and search for troubleshooting. Or search the Knowledge Base over there ===>
for the standard diagnostic.

Everyone here is just another user like you, and we cannot "fix" it for you. We can just tell you how to do your own troubleshooting.

[dexonu]

Im using 2 OS Xp And Vista Ultimate for FF3 but the same problem started crashing everytime i restart

[Very Disgruntled]

I am very angry that firefox 3 is crashing on my computer. I have windows vista and I haven't been able to open it cause it crashes as soon as it finish download. I never had this problem with firefox2. If anyone has any advice how I can get firefox3 to work I will appreciate it, I need to test my websites while I develop them, I need firefox.

[a;skdjfajf;ak]

Im using 2 OS Xp And Vista Ultimate for FF3 but the same problem started crashing everytime i restart

Do you have Silverlight 1.0 intalled ? Its not compatible with 3.0

[LoudNoise]

I am very angry that firefox 3 is crashing on my computer. I have windows vista and I haven't been able to open it cause it crashes as soon as it finish download. I never had this problem with firefox2. If anyone has any advice how I can get firefox3 to work I will appreciate it, I need to test my websites while I develop them, I need firefox.

Dis-

This, at least, is a total different problem. Start at new thread and we can start to help you.

Those of you with Gmail issues are being served here: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=686355

[Guest]

Im using 2 OS Xp And Vista Ultimate for FF3 but the same problem started crashing everytime i restart

Do you have Silverlight 1.0 intalled ? Its not compatible with 3.0

I have v2 and i deleted it hoping to fix the problem but the same thing its still crashes
thanks for your help!I hope this problem will be fix soon...[quote]

[Very Disgruntled]

Dis-

This, at least, is a total different problem. Start at new thread and we can start to help you.

Those of you with Gmail issues are being served here: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=686355[/quote]

By the mean time does anyone know where I can get a download of firefox 2. As I stated earlier, everytime I finish downloading firefox3 when the browser tries to open it crashes so I am yet to see what firefox3 actually looks like. "Could it possibe that the mirrors that we are given to download from, the firefox3 setup is infected".