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Recognizing threads with IMAP.

User Help for Mozilla Thunderbird
Michele_BS
 
Posts: 64
Joined: May 11th, 2012, 11:14 am

Post Posted January 12th, 2017, 4:35 am

Thank you tanstaafl, very kind.

Unluckily there's another problem: with IMAP, I recently moved to from POP3, I can't open any message in Conversation view: the Open in Conversation [Ctrl+Shift+O] is always greyed, here, while in my other pop3 accounts this is not a rule. Actually, in my other pop3 accounts every message is viewable as part of Conversation (Open in Conversation is active): a one-message Conversation, at least, when the message is in fact alone, or its Headers are not properly filled.

When I moved to IMAP, I archived the previous POP3 folder, as safeguard in case of issues with my first use of IMAP. Starting IMAP, I stopped receive e-mails as POP3, of course, disabling the pop3 server. But with such archiving I now have available, from the past months, several (apparently) identical messages originally received with POP3, and then copied to IMAP folders: this could be useful for a comparison of the Headers. A I said, for the ones stored in the old POP3 (backup) folder, it's possible to open them as a Conversation; not so for the IMAP. Maybe a difference in the Headers.

Please could you control if you notice any remarkable differences in the two Headers?
I can't understand why I can/can't open the same message as Conversation. The only explanation I suppose is a difference in the two Headers, occurred when moving to IMAP.

The e-mail comes from a newsletter: a one-off message.

POP3:

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From - Wed Jul 06 16:14:44 2016
X-Account-Key: account5
X-UIDL: 1467813790.7218.mxavas2.ad.aruba.it,S=15120
X-Mozilla-Status: 0000
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                 
Return-Path: <suite11@return.ableton.com>
Delivered-To: my address
Received: (qmail 7206 invoked by uid 89); 6 Jul 2016 14:03:10 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO mxcmd01.ad.aruba.it) (10.10.10.65)
  by mxavas2.ad.aruba.it with SMTP; 6 Jul 2016 14:03:10 -0000
Received: from uspmta194167.emarsys.net ([217.175.194.167])
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DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; s=key2; d=news.ableton.com;
 h=To:Subject:From:MIME-Version:List-Id:List-Unsubscribe:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date; i=no-reply@news.ableton.com;
 bh=Zp738jw5GYD1BiZmp9iQKWeyUNg=;
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   Vko1TgvYE9oYvcrlZmUm47hNrkZPrfVMER/fLSvEihKsuAoV+znETqcxQIWKs5+m1cDbAzNid4i5
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Received: from (10.33.0.108) by uspmta194167.emarsys.net id hfk7pq16necs for <my address>; Wed, 6 Jul 2016 16:03:06 +0200 (envelope-from <suite11@return.ableton.com>)
To: my address
Subject: Grimes on production techniques, creative inspirations and playing live
X-Mailer: class SMTPMail
From: "Ableton Newsletter" <no-reply@news.ableton.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
List-Id: 534757879 <Ableton Newsletter>
X-EMarSys-Identify: 534757879_464238_30645
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Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 16:03:06 +0200
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IMAP:

Code: Select all
X-Account-Key: account5
X-UIDL: 1467813790.7218.mxavas2.ad.aruba.it,S=15120
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                 
Return-Path: <suite11@return.ableton.com>
Delivered-To: my address
Received: (qmail 7206 invoked by uid 89); 6 Jul 2016 14:03:10 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO mxcmd01.ad.aruba.it) (10.10.10.65)
  by mxavas2.ad.aruba.it with SMTP; 6 Jul 2016 14:03:10 -0000
Received: from uspmta194167.emarsys.net ([217.175.194.167])
   by mxcmd01.ad.aruba.it with bizsmtp
   id FS371t01Z3dALaZ01S38RW; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 16:03:09 +0200
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; s=key2; d=news.ableton.com;
 h=To:Subject:From:MIME-Version:List-Id:List-Unsubscribe:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date; i=no-reply@news.ableton.com;
 bh=Zp738jw5GYD1BiZmp9iQKWeyUNg=;
 b=EY3VVYN1vPpHKxPjbleVxzSOxxdPeOv88ZgZVaW6/c9xv1L+naDADZoWcffuXFJq9PRd2FQgmRav
   izvXMCYXhEbDdSgQq/JPOQ9KdbnykUESmGiuR/q2bJAVSrYBfDj28NQlnVQkC6YaF/Mb1nhW1wk8
   RICggLYrS3aK+28Vlp8=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; q=dns; s=key2; d=news.ableton.com;
 b=EMuKuKyQOoa7gd9Qi0VlEUZ1p528+3ngE4Py4jq/wtQcooMyZrzqlqU1O6zH5XKQEvesE3YNQf82
   Vko1TgvYE9oYvcrlZmUm47hNrkZPrfVMER/fLSvEihKsuAoV+znETqcxQIWKs5+m1cDbAzNid4i5
   TjPPwo4xCSwyhTFbDxY=;
Received: from (10.33.0.108) by uspmta194167.emarsys.net id hfk7pq16necs for <my address>; Wed, 6 Jul 2016 16:03:06 +0200 (envelope-from <suite11@return.ableton.com>)
To: my address
Subject: Grimes on production techniques, creative inspirations and playing live
X-Mailer: class SMTPMail
From: "Ableton Newsletter" <no-reply@news.ableton.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
List-Id: 534757879 <Ableton Newsletter>
X-EMarSys-Identify: 534757879_464238_30645
X-EMarSys-Environment: suite11
X-Report-Abuse: Please report abuse here: abuse-report@emarsys.com
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Thank you.

tanstaafl
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Posts: 42221
Joined: July 30th, 2003, 5:06 pm

Post Posted January 14th, 2017, 1:39 pm

I can't spot anything different between them that should make a difference. However, they only have a Message-ID: header (no References/In-Reply-To headers) so if they are in a conversation they would have to be the parent message. Perhaps the problem is not with this IMAP message, but with the other IMAP messages.

Michele_BS
 
Posts: 64
Joined: May 11th, 2012, 11:14 am

Post Posted January 16th, 2017, 9:56 am

It's really strange.

Working with Headers (adding References: and Reply-To:), I succeeded in grouping messages that belong to a same folder in threads, but still remains obscure how to correctly classify and view in Conversation tabs several messages, also belonging to different folders (Inbox, Sent, Drafts) properly grouped, as I could with POP3. With such a fuction, Drafts still in composition even were included: really useful, to have an effective view of the situation.

Till now, the only result I achieved (don't know how, though) is for some messages to have the command "Open Message in Conversation" available, where it seems that this was always greyed, before. But, always, when the message is opened in Conversation view it's always a one-message Conversation, with it as the only one belonging to the Conversation.

And, often, messages openable in Conversation don't even have Rerefence: nor Reply-To: lines.

For example:

E-mail with no References nor Reply-To, and yet the command "Open Message in Conversation" active:

Code: Select all
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 16:51:19 +0100
Message-Id: <OJOC1J$EEB3C20E2B41310B651CAB83325DBF62@bartolettistella.net>
Subject: Fw:Snoblesse - Ricevuta.
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Sensitivity: 3
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_=__=_XaM3_.1484236279.2A.870211.42.1709.52.42.007.1853240121"
From: "..." <...@....net>
To: ...@....com
X-XaM3-API-Version: V3(R2)
X-SenderIP: 95.250.242.155


--_=__=_XaM3_.1484236279.2A.870211.42.1709.52.42.007.1853240121
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

...

--_=__=_XaM3_.1484236279.2A.870211.42.1709.52.42.007.1853240121--

tanstaafl
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Post Posted January 16th, 2017, 1:22 pm

Don't forget that you can enable conversations based on subject by setting mail.thread_without_re true. Also the parent message in a conversation won't have References: or Reply-To: headers since its the first message in the conversation.

Michele_BS
 
Posts: 64
Joined: May 11th, 2012, 11:14 am

Post Posted January 16th, 2017, 2:13 pm

Right, I read about this some time ago, but didn't studied the thing.

So, how does Thunderbird behave with same subjects, precisely, if I set mail.thread_without_re true? And how about the Re: prefix in replyes?

I also can search for a guide, about this.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted January 16th, 2017, 3:15 pm

I pointed you to http://kb.mozillazine.org/Stop_threading_by_subject in my first post.

DN123ABC
 
Posts: 68
Joined: January 9th, 2017, 10:10 am

Post Posted January 17th, 2017, 8:33 am

I have a related question.

I have multiple "Sent" (and other) folders. When I send from my Android phone, it goes into its own "Sent" folder, not the one Thunderbird uses (both on IMAP). What I usually do is create a temporary folder, "aaaatemp", or something like that, to dump the ones on the phone into. Then I find that folder in Thunderbird, and move them to the right "Sent" folder, so when I search, they are all in the same place. I think I have at least 3 "Trash" (or is it "Deleted Items"?) folders, which I also need to empty individually.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted January 17th, 2017, 9:43 am

DN123ABC:

You can change the sent folder used by Thunderbird using tools -> account settings -> account_name -> copies & folders. Normally you would choose whatever folder (sent, sent items etc.) that webmail uses so that all of your sent messages (regardless of what you used to send them) are in the same folder. If your Android phone uses a remote folder in a IMAP account you should be able to settle on a common folder for at least it and Thunderbird.

Its not clear to me why you have 3 "deleted items" folders. You can choose what trash folder Thunderbird uses in tools -> account settings -> account_name -> server settings -> when I delete a message. Personally, I don't use a trash folder, I tell it to "just mark it as deleted" which I find more convenient. The folder listing draws a line through deleted messages and they are removed when the folder is compacted. Your Android smartphone might not support that setting, but that would at least reduce the number of trash folders you need to deal with.

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Deleting_mess ... P_accounts

DN123ABC
 
Posts: 68
Joined: January 9th, 2017, 10:10 am

Post Posted January 17th, 2017, 11:39 am

Right now, I have 3 ways of accessing email:
1) Thunderbird
2) browser based
3) android phone

I am guessing each had/has its own way of doing things, so doesn't play well with others.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted January 17th, 2017, 12:35 pm

I would expect you could use the same folders for at least 2 of those 3. If you switched email clients on the Android to something that targeted power users such as "K-9 Mail" or "my Secure Mail" you might get all three to use the same folders.

DN123ABC
 
Posts: 68
Joined: January 9th, 2017, 10:10 am

Post Posted January 17th, 2017, 3:28 pm

Thanks tanstaafl, I will take a look at your advice when I have a moment.

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