How do I change the Server Type from Local Mail Store to POP

[tanstaafl]

Mozbackup just lets you backup or restore a profile (or a subset of one). I wouldn't view it as a good tool for migrating data to a new profile.

"I tried to use the ImportExportTools addon that you suggested and I can't seem to make it work. Selecting the correct file seems to the sticking point."
Can you see a "inbox." file in the POP accounts directory? I'm wondering if windows explorer is configured to hide certain files , you don't know how to recognize what to look for, or you're just looking in the wrong directory. I'd assume you're looking in "C:\Users\Bob\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\cdee3six.default\Mail\\pop.montana-4.com" (top directory for the POP account) and "C:\Users\Bob\Documents\1 Bob's eMail" (the renamed Local Folders account) for anything that you want to import. And then look in the child directories for both of those locations.

Could you elaborate more on what you did? That might also help me improve the KB article.

Don't worry, I won't give up on you

[Montana Bob]

MozBackUp works well to import Address Books. That said, it doesn't work worth a d__n for messages as it insists on including the old PREFS.JS file even if it is specifically excluded by unchecking it in the UNKNOWN FILES list.

I am going to try once again today to use the IMPORT/EXPORT/TOOLS addon that you suggest. Hopefully, with a good night's sleep I'll be able to do it correctly this time. As I have a bunch of client work on my desk, I may not get done until later today or even tomorrow. Please bear with me.

I have to say that this is an incredibly frustrating process which is why I haven't approached it for several years. What really bothers me is that I have been on the Web since 1994 or so, have had my own domain since '96, have used either Netscape or TB since their inception, build my own computers for myself and others, train others in their use, etc., and yet this process stumps me! Grrrrrrrrrr! I just appreciate your working through it with me.

Added at 10:35 AM
Out of curiosity, why is there not an option to import/export ABs and Messages built in to TB? There exists that option for other eMail clients. Why is TB not included?

Thanks again!

Montana Bob

[tanstaafl]

tools -> import will import address books if they are .csv , .ldif or .txt files. Those are standard formats used when you export a address book. It just doesn't support importing *.mab files , unfortunately. Why tools -> import doesn't support importing mbox files whose location you specify, I have no idea. Its been suggested many times, along with the idea of being able to import from another Thunderbird profile. Not do I understand why they have done nothing about the broken import support for .pst files and mail.app.

[Montana Bob]

Can't believe it. Now I am seeing the same problem that caused me to fix TB a few days ago. I was downloading my messages with no problem yesterday and this morning. Now I can't download any. They appear on my webmail on the ISP's website, but I can't download them into my computer. Grrrrr!

When I try to download messages, the wording at the bottom of the TB window says "BestImage@Montana.com Downloading messages 1 of 9" At the instant that that message appears, the download-progress bar is immediately filled. For a minute or two, there is download activity on the connection. Then the message and the progress bar disappears.

UPDATE: 4:11 PM MDT
Tried downloaded the same messages on my wife's laptop, on which I have an account, and all messages come down just fine, sooooo . . . the problem is on my machine alone.

Sure is driving me nuts!

Montana Bob

[tanstaafl]

One of the reasons why I prefer IMAP is POP accounts are much more vulnerable to problems when downloading messages with bad headers. If they can't download a message they don't tell you that and then skip over the message to the next one. Instead, it creates a logjam. IMAP accounts not only seem less vulnerable, but by design let you skip over any problematic messages and read the next ones.

What you might have to do is log into webmail using a browser, read and delete the oldest new message, logout and try again. Hopefully that will clear up the logjam.

[Montana Bob]

The reason that I selected the POP account is that my ISP said that that is the only way that I can leave the messages on the server for a few days. So I decided to create a new PROFILE using IMAP instead of POP. (ISP refers to them as "POP3" for some reason.) Anyway, true to form, there is no option under SERVER SETTINGS to leave them on the server. I do not view that as a problem because the POP account on my wife's laptop seems to download all messages without a problem contrary to mine, and I have hers set to leave messages on the server, as I do with my Android tablet. Once I have them downloaded to my Desktop, (this machine with which we have been working), I dump them anyway.

Anyway, as I said, I created a new profile as IMAP and it seems to be working, downloading all messages. The senior Tech Support people have gone for the day, so I will chat with them tomorrow, first, to question them why downloading my messages on the POP account is problematic, and second, whether I can use an IMAP account. I'll keep you abreast of my findings.

Thanks again!

Gotta get back to client work now that I have my eMail messages even if they are located in the wrong profile.

Montana Bob

[tanstaafl]

The reason there is no option to leave messages on the server for a IMAP account is because that is where it is designed to store them. Every time you open a message in a remote folder it fetches it into memory (but doesn't download it to the hard disk). POP accounts aren't designed to store messages on the server, the "leave message on server" feature is basically a hack to try to emulate some of the features of a IMAP account.

The reason the IMAP account is downloading the messages is because you have offline folders and global search/indexing enabled by default. I have those two optional features disabled and get by using the quick filter bar to search messages. Its a personal choice. Offline folders can't be used as a cache and I don't have any reason to work offline, so I like to use a simpler, lighter configuration.

POP accounts use the POP3 protocol. IMAP accounts use the IMAP4 protocol.

I wouldn't blame the ISP for the poor job dealing with "bad" messages unless they turn out to be spam messages that they should have caught. Thunderbird is not as tolerant of errors as it should be.

[Montana Bob]

. . . but what I cannot understand is why my wife's laptop downloads the messages just fine and mine won't. The only difference between them is the OS, hers is Win 8.1 and mine is Win 7. Both are 64 bit. Both are TB and FF and both were set to POP. One other difference is that I have BitDefender Internet Suite, with firewall, on her machine for the sake of simplicity. I run BitDefender for AntiVirus and Comodo for a firewall.

When messing around today creating new profiles, trying to get the messages to come down, etc., I deliberately shut down the firewall to see whether it could be the problem as it recently updated. Lo and behold the messages started coming it but then it stopped again, so I considered this an anomaly and restarted the firewall. Needless to say, running without a firewall is lunacy, but it was worth a try. When I logged on to the webmail in the browser, Firefox, BTW, by accessing webmail in my browser, I discovered that the download with TB stopped at a message containing some photos so the message size was 4.8 Mb. Up until now, I have been able to bring down messages up to 10 Mb with no problem, and the ISP tells me that this is my limit and and larger messages will bounce back to the sender, which is normal procedure. I have never seen messages of less than 10 Mb stop a download . . . NEVER. Anyway, with this new knowledge, I am going to hammer them tomorrow. If this entire mess could have been prevented by them leveling with me, I am not going to be a happy camper! Screwing around with this has resulted in the loss of numerous hours of sleep and probably close to 40 hours of wasted time, to say nothing of YOUR time which also has to have been extensive. I will say that I have learned a ton though.

Once I get the problematic message downloading solved, then I can get back to developing a properly working PROFILE into which I can transfer messages and address books. As goes the ole saw; "No rest for the wicked and good don't need none!"

More as it happens.

Thanks again!

Montana Bob

[tanstaafl]

Most email providers support messages of 20MB. I suggest you ask whether the limit can be customized for you. With some email providers that is as simple as editing the "server side script" used for your account to use a different value.

[Montana Bob]

Forgot to insert the header of the offending eMail message. Here 'tis.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: 31 2017 <>
X-Account-Key: account4
X-UIDL: 00005bf656e395fc
X-Mozilla-Status: 1001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-Mozilla-Keys:
X-TimeOut1: 0
X-TimeOut2: 1
Return-Path: <h2ooutdoors@gmail.com>
Delivered-To: bestimag@blackfoot.net
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Tried to get the ISP to increase the message to 20 Mb but now they tell me that the present limit on my account is 15 Mb, with which I can live.

It's hard to believe, but yesterday morning, (Wednesday, May 10th), I had no problems downloading messages using the POP account, until the shortly after noon MDT. Then downloads stopped. So I tried the IMAP account and was able to download messages. Today, so far, (it's now 12:35 PM MDT), downloading on POP is working. As POP is working, I've not tried IMAP. Keep your fingers crossed.

The ISP is placing blame on my Internet Connection provider, AT & T. Problem is that that is impossible as when I am UNable to download messages on my desktop computer, I am able to download them using my wife's laptop and on my Android tablet, both of which use the same AT & T connection. Secondly, during the problem period, I am able to access any website in my browser, so their allegation is impossible.

As for using an IMAP account, which has been working, I see no option in TB to leave messages on the server or delete them after a given time. Am I missing something? There is a workaround, but it's a PITA. I would have log onto the ISP's webmail and delete them there, which I would rather avoid if at all possible.

Lastly, you may remember that several days ago, downloads were stalling on 1 eMail message sent by 1 person. Below you will find the header of that message. Please check it for problems that would cause the ISP's message server to balk on that message or any from that sender. The message sizes have never exceeded 5 Mb so that wouldn't caused a stoppage. Secondly, the sender, my neighbor, never received a "bounce" message. The ISP claims that they see no problem in the header.

Thanks again, Tanstraafl, for all of your help. I think that we are making headway.

Montana Bob

[tanstaafl]

"As for using an IMAP account, which has been working, I see no option in TB to leave messages on the server or delete them after a given time. Am I missing something?"

Yes. There is no option because its not optional, it always leaves them on the server. What is optional, is downloading them to the hard disk. See http://kb.mozillazine.org/Message_aging if you want to automatically delete a message after X days. However, it will delete the message on both the remote and offline folder (if offline folder exists). Do not expect POP and IMAP accounts to have the same server settings (i.e. IMAP account have a leave on server checkbox etc.), they operate quite differently.

I can't evaluate if the message would cause problems because all of the headers are not before the message body, and your message has multiple parts, each of which has headers.

[Montana Bob]

So, if I understand you correctly, with IMAP, messages are left on the server until deleted, either by me, assuming I have selected that option offered by the ISP, or by the ISP according to their normal policy.

Please explain the terms "offline" "remote" folders.

FWIW, I retain ALL business-related messages on my computer indefinitely. The balance of the messages are saved on an as-needed basis.

BTW, I experienced no problems today downloading messages on the account designated as a POP account. I can only hope that that contiues from now on. Then it's back to transferring all messages and address books to the working POP account.

Thanks again, Tanstaafl!

Montana Bob

[tanstaafl]

Yes.

When you use file -> offline -> work offline Thunderbird won't access the network (so you can't send a message, read a new message, and might not be able to read an old message. The latter depends upon whether you have a offline folder) . By default a IMAP account shows the contents of remote folders (folders for mail stored on the IMAP server), it is similar to what you'd see if you were logged in using webmail. When you switch to working offline it show the contents of any corresponding "offline" folders instead, if they exist. These folders are created by default per the synchronization & storage settings in the accounts settings. They use mbox files just like POP accounts. That is the downloading of new mail that you observed. If a offline folder doesn't exist some generic text is displayed instead of the message body about the fact you are working offline.

You do not have to enable offline folders to use a IMAP account. However, if you have global search/indexing enabled it will download the same messages on its own because it can't get them from the offline folders, in order to build its search index.

Regardless of what you have enabled, every IMAP account will download headers to the hard disk in order to build the *.msf files used to cache the folder listing. Thats pretty lightweight.

Offline folders aren't used as a cache. If you delete a message in a folder and the folders are synched the corresponding message in the offline/remote folder is deleted too. So, unlike a POP account you can't use a offline folder as a permanent copy of the messages that you can count on.

If you are using global search/indexing you might as well enable offline folders since you're paying the cost for them anyways, so you might as well get any additional value you can from that background downloading of messages to the hard disk. Global search (despite its flaws) is popular. If it wasn't, I suspect offline folders would not be used so much by users who understand they can't be relied upon as a backup file.

[Montana Bob]

Tanstaafl,

Betcha ya thought that I fell off of the face of the earth! Actually, I got extremely busy with client work and since I had TB kind of working, I let it go for a while.

Anyway, I now have two profiles showing; the first being at the top of the list and entitled "Bob's New Account (5/22/2017)". It a POP3 Account and it's working fine. All of the folders are where they are supposed to be, I've moved my eMail into the proper folders and I was successful in transferring my Address Book, so I am kind of happy finally. I felt confident enough to dump all of the other profiles that I was experimenting with as they darned filled my HDD as each profile contains all of the eMail messages, each sized at just under 50 Gb. There is a second account which I called "Local Folders" but it doesn't appear to act like one. In fact, originally, all of my messages were stored there along with my AB. I moved everything from that profile to "Bob's New Account (5/22/2017). In fact, I really don't need that "Local Folders" account but I am afraid to dump it lest that cause problems with the "Bob's New . . . ". The only problem is that all sent messages end up in the "Sent" folder of the Local Folders account for some reason. In the Local Folders/Copies and Folder section of Account Settings, I have modified everything to move anything to "Bob's New . . . ". When I try to change the "Local Directory" to the location for "Bob's New . . . ", I get the dreaded " . . . not suitable for message storage." message.

I also just noticed that an account, "cdee3six.default", that I dumped weeks ago, has reappeared under "App Data/Roaming/Thunderbird". I dumped it again and sent a test message to myself and find that the sent message ends up in the proper "Sent" folder under the correct profile. I have a feeling that this is related to some erroneous data in the "Prefs.js" file. I just performed a search in the "Prefs.js" file and find that "cdee3six.default" still appears in 7 places. I also notice that there are a number of names of profiles that I dumped a few days ago still in the "Prefs.js" file, so, although I thought that I have a new "Prefs.js" file, I obviously do not.

Sooooooooooo . . . I am all but positive that I have the original "Prefs.js" file that was giving me grief and although everything is ALMOST working correctly, I still have these little glitches to eliminate. My concern is if I don't clean up the "Prefs.js" file, sometime in the future, I am going to experience anew the problems that got me here in the first place.

Question: How do I clean up the "Prefs.js" file, eliminating all of the extraneous junk that remains, i.e., the "cdee3six.default" profile, along with other profiles long since deleted? Can I just replace the old profile names with the new one assigned to the working profile, delete the lines in which they appear, or ????????

Here's a line from the "Prefs.js" with proper/working profile:
user_pref("mail.server.server2.directory", "C:\\Users\\Bob\\AppData\\Roaming\\Thunderbird\\Profiles\\jq5a19na.Bob's New TB Profile\\Mail\\pop.montana-4.com");

. . . and here are a few lines the "Prefs.js" with an old/bogus profile:
user_pref("mail.root.imap", "C:\\Users\\Bob\\AppData\\Roaming\\Thunderbird\\Profiles\\cdee3six.default\\ImapMail");
user_pref("mail.root.imap-rel", "[ProfD]ImapMail");
user_pref("mail.root.nntp", "C:\\Documents and Settings\\Bob\\Application Data\\Thunderbird\\Profiles\\cdee3six.default\\News");
user_pref("mail.root.none", "C:\\Documents and Settings\\Bob\\Application Data\\Thunderbird\\Profiles\\cdee3six.default\\Mail");
user_pref("mail.root.none-rel", "[ProfD]../../../../../../../Documents and Settings/Bob/Application Data/Thunderbird/Profiles/cdee3six.default/Mail");
user_pref("mail.root.pop3", "C:\\Documents and Settings\\Bob\\Application Data\\Thunderbird\\Profiles\\cdee3six.default\\Mail");

. . . and here a few lines from the "Prefs.js" referring to an IMAP account that I tried, and subsequently dumped, when I was successful in creating a POP3 account that worked.
user_pref("mail.root.imap", "C:\\Users\\Bob\\AppData\\Roaming\\Thunderbird\\Profiles\\cdee3six.default\\ImapMail");
user_pref("mail.root.imap-rel", "[ProfD]ImapMail");

With your help, I am almost there and, as I have said numerous times, it is immensely appreciated!

Montana Bob

[tanstaafl]

You seem to be still confusing profiles and accounts. Profiles are the "containers" that contain one or more accounts, plus a single prefs.js file. You're also looking at and worrying about some settings that you really should just ignore if the accounts are basically working okay.

I suggest you focus on getting everything you want into one profile, and then check that the "local directory" setting (its near the bottom of each accounts server settings pane) for each account (including Local Folders) is for a child directory within either the Mail or ImapMail child directory in that profile. Use the Browse button to change the local directory as necessary, and use the ImportExportTools add-on to import mail folders as necessary if they aren't IMAP accounts. Use help -> troubleshooting info -> open folder to open windows explorer at the current profile if you get confused.

If you do that, Thunderbird will update the other settings such as mail.root.imap, mail.root.pop3 etc. accordingly.