Unable to send messages - Outlook responds failure

[DavidJHowe]

Started yesterday (06/07/2017). Sending messages from just one of my two TB accounts results in the following coming back from Hotmail:

An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded: 5.3.4 554 5.2.0 STOREDRV.Submission.Exception:SendAsDeniedException.MapiExceptionSendAsDenied; Failed to process message due to a permanent exception with message Cannot submit message.

The other account is fine at the moment. I've been using TB for some 20 years now with no issues, and of course nothing has changed at my side (apart from recent TB updates but I don't think there has been one for a couple of weeks) so I suspect this is some sort of a change made by Hotmail/Outlook.

Googling brings up reference to something called 'Clutter' which I have never heard of so I suspect it's a new thing that Hotmail are rolling out. There is nothing in my Options about it and so again I suspect they are rolling it out or something ... (I can't find the article I saw now ... silly google!)

I'll try sending from time to time and see if this just goes away ...

Anyone else encountering this? Does anyone know what the solution is?


Setup details: I have two Hotmail accounts with different logins. A standard Thunderbird install on a Windows 10 PC. The two accounts are represented in Thunderbird, and I use TB for all email handling etc. As far as I know there's nothing fancy or customised about the install or usage.

I tried compacting the TB folders ete just in case but it made no difference.

[tanstaafl]

Check that the message isn't too large. I've found posts about other email clients getting 554 5.2.0 errors due to trying to send too large attachments. Don't forget that if you send a binary attachment its actual size will be about 1/3 larger due to base64 encoding. Its possible you might need to empty the Outbox folder to avoid a failed prior attempt re-occurring when you send another (unrelated) message.

[DavidJHowe]

Thanks for the response. Messages are not too large. No attachments ... nothing I do works. Every message is rejected.

Good point re the outbox ... just checked and there's nothing in it. The message you're trying to send just vanishes! Not even in DRAFTS ... Which is also frustrating ...

David

[tanstaafl]

Are you using live.com or outlook.com? If the former see if switching to the outlook mail servers has any effect. See http://kb.mozillazine.org/Hotmail

[DavidJHowe]

I'm using (and have been for some time) the outlook settings. So smtp-mail.outlook.com and imap-mail.outlook.com.

It's still not working on either of my mail accounts ... if this persists past monday or tuesday next week, then I'll try fiddling with Thunderbird and see if I can fix it ... Might try re-setting up one of them as a new account in Thunderbird and see if that makes any difference. Or try one of them as a POP rather than as an SMTP ... I'm not sure POP is the answer though as I use Mail through various devices (phone, tablet, PC) and ideally need them to all stay in line with each other (which is what SMTP gives me).

It's all such a faff though as I've not changed anything my end, so I *know* it's something MS/Hotmail/Outlook have changed. One of my friends commented that they had been experiencing issues with their Hotmail for the last couple of weeks, but it was fixed on the same day that the issue I have started ... so that's suspicious!!!

David

[tanstaafl]

Outlook.com periodically has problems that effect a sizable percent of Thunderbird users, but not everyone, for a week or two and then they fix it. My outlook.com IMAP account seems to still be working okay (sending and receiving messages) and I haven't noticed a recent bunch of posts about outlook.com problems. So your problem might be very configuration specific.

[DanRaisch]

Or try one of them as a POP rather than as an SMTP

It's not actually a choice of "POP rather than SMTP" as both POP and IMAP email accounts depend on the provider's SMTP server to send messages.

[DavidJHowe]

Sorry yes ... I used the wrong term. It's POP or IMAP Both use the SMTP server ...

And I'm hoping that this just goes away soon ... at the moment I'm having to use the Hotmail Web system to reply to emails as Thunderbird can't be used. If I can't make it work it might be the end for my use of Thunderbird.

I first started to use emails around 1996, and was on a programme called Eudora which was then subsumed into Thunderbird ... so I have been using this program ever since I've been online!!! Be a shame to have to stop now because Outlook/Hotmail screwed something up!

David

[DanRaisch]

Just for kicks, try changing the settings for that outgoing server to smtp.office365.com. Port should be 587, user name the full email address, authentication = Normal Password, and Connection Security = STARTTLS.

[DavidJHowe]

Thanks for that ... I can't actually see a way to change the SMTP value - I just have a list from which to select it. Do I have to set up a new account to do this or is there a way of adding to the list?

It also occurred to me that I could change the SMTP to the gmail one I have ... I think the impact would be that outgoing messages would be stored on the gmail SENT folder rather than the Hotmail ones ...

EDITED TO ADD: I tried that and it worked fine. All I changed was the outbound SMTP for the account. So it would certainly seem not to be an issue with Thunderbird (as I suspected) and something to do with Hotmail

David

[DanRaisch]

You can change the server name of the Outlook SMTP server. Use menu path Tools->Account Setting->Outgoing Server (SMTP) [at the bottom of the left hand pane list]->click on the name of the Outlook at top right->click on "Edit" to access the current settings and change them.

[mbolton]

I have had the same problem for about a week. David, did you change the outbound SMTP to Gmail or Office365 as suggested?
Mike.