I have and used to use a Gmail POP account, but last year it stopped working because this old Thunderbird doesn't support the current protocol. The same with my home ISP e-mail. Used to, doesn't now.
My home ISP has e-mail included, which was great POP3 until 2009 when they changed to gmail against my advice, which was stupid, they flushed a working system for "free", so that the maggots at gmail can read all my mail and save all my attachments, then gmail ended that free e-mail to ISPs several years later (Why keep on, when all the data has already been harvested?), which sent them scrambling to set up something new, setting on some dogshit called Zembra, the worst mail program I've seen. It's "anti-spam" mechanism is to send you a spam every day at 11 p.m. listing all your spam with a lot of links to Condornet to decide what to do with it.
So the only two sending methods I have from Thunderbird on my business PC at home are my two SMTP servers used with my POP3 accounts (incoming, one used, one not) at two different companies. I'm VERY doubtful that this didn't happen once in 18 years with either, but suddenly happens with both.
SMTP won't send Thunderbird 2.0.0.23
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SMCorp
- Posts: 110
- Joined: September 6th, 2007, 9:26 pm
- Location: USA
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tanstaafl
- Moderator
- Posts: 49647
- Joined: July 30th, 2003, 5:06 pm
Re: SMTP won't send Thunderbird 2.0.0.23
Could you temporarily connect a long Ethernet cable from your PC to your router? That would let you rule out the WiFi connection being the issue. I know you said you had a strong signal but I've read similar threads where the user traced the problem to the router. I don't remember if they just had to change some router settings or if they had to upgrade the firmware, but it was fixable.
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SMCorp
- Posts: 110
- Joined: September 6th, 2007, 9:26 pm
- Location: USA
Re: SMTP won't send Thunderbird 2.0.0.23
Sorry to disappear from my own thread!!!
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Notice: This message is irrelevant to all, it just explains what I've been doing. The discussion of the problem continues with the next message.
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A half hour after my last post Friday afternoon, the computer I was using died and it took me 69 hours to get back online with another computer after trying to set up my whole hardware/software/data set on three different computers.
That most recent computer was the best one I've ever had, I'd bought it at a live auction 5/2006 for $5. Since it was probably new 1/2006, $200 might have been a fair price for it, but bidders were not at that auction for computers, they were extremely focused on other items and let me walk away with three heaping Beverly Hillbillies-sized truckloads for $2,500.
It was almost new, less than 6 months old, a generic white box Chinese full size tower PC with a Taiwan Asus P4B533 motherboard with a 2ghz Pentium 4, large IBM Death Star IDE drive (120gb), and I think 1gb RAM. Such a deal, though I didn't then need it.
I'd always liked Asus (and Acer), now I really do.
Before, I liked to use low end Chinese-made computers called GQ ("Good Quality") that were a store brand of Fry's Electronics. Every year or two I'd buy one from the weekly ad for $149-249 and put the motherboard in one of my two 19" PC rack cases, put in two of my own removable IDE hard drive racks (I have over 50 of them with hard drives, of all my data backed up, I use Acronis True Image 9.0 to clone my drives and put on the shelf and rotate some of them to the warehouse and garage in case of flood, fire, theft). Those cheap computers suited my needs, but the Chinese (Realtek) drivers weren't so good.
I must have gone through 3 or 4 of them in seven years, and they weren't sold anymore, or the ones sold no longer had drivers for my OS and were too fast for my OS to work, the last one gotten for $199 had to be resold to a friend for a loss when I could not make it work with 98SE.
I was used to using those, and they no longer sold them, and I again needed one after two years with the last one, so the night before Thanksgiving 2010, I tracked down a used Chinese Fry's GQ PC on Craigslist. I spent hours getting it in the case and getting it all set up with my software and drivers, and got to work at 3am Thanksgiving morning.
And the motherboard died 30 minutes later!
I somehow did something else for a month, then on Christmas 2010, I just said to hell with it, can't find another GQ now but didn't want to use the 19" rack hoping to fix that one later, and I pulled out this $5 Asus PC, drilled holes all across the center line of the top and bottom of the case which was a pretty fat 8" wide full size ATX tower case with very square sides, put rack slides on there, rearranged my office rack to have the extra space needed for this fat 8" wide PC tower slung sideways, and spent a lot of time getting the drivers working for Windows 98 and getting all my data and drive racks in there. It worked well, and the Asus drivers were far superior to the Chinese ones, less buggy, less crashing, less conflicts over the years.
Aside from burning out a power supply 7/2017 (which might have been avoided with dusting and cleaning, but I only did that on my computers when I had them out of the rack for repairs but this was never out for repairs, it just worked and worked), but otherwise ran 24 hours a day here (and one and off the road 20-30x) for 8 years straight. Pretty good for $5.
Buy Asus(tm).
But last Friday afternoon, when I was finally trying to solve the 5 month old large attachment size SMTP problem (when I send 10mb of photos, I often have to re-send it 5 or 10 times, sometimes even 50 times, as it bombs partway through with an SMTP blocked error that I know is fake).
The forum suggestion to check all my connections on DSL and routers was a good one, so I got to it. While doing that, no relation, the computer froze but the mouse still moved. I had to restart and did. But it didn't. It was black forever.
Took about 8 hours that day and the next to figure out that the power supply from last summer was still good and the motherboard itself was bad. It was not connectivity or anything with connectors, something inside the board had died after 8 years of use. It would not even go to the BIOS screen or initiate any floppy drive or hard drive activity. I could not find the same exact model/revision Asus P4B533 motherboard with any sellers for a fair price so I could just drop it in without changing drivers, and I needed it NOW. I thought I could do it in one day, it took almost 3 days, or 69 hours not including sleep.
The first one was an Intel P4 some years older, it and it's hardware could not run my OS, so I gave up on that one.
I went to my warehouse on the third day and got an IBM ThinkCentre (ugh) 2.4ghz P4 3gb RAM tower that came in at some point I can't recall, and it was just about 12 hours work to get that one working properly. The built-in network card and sound that claim to have 98SE drivers will NOT work with 98SE, and some web guy said that, too, but I was able to disable that stuff in the very, very sophisticated BIOS it has and use a PCI NIC and a PCI Ensoniq AudioPCI (USA made in the late 90s, very interesting to compare the PCB/gold quality and application technique to the Chinese made PC cards), and got it all installed, all my data in, and just set it sideways in my rack supported by my scanner I can't use until I properly rack it and got back to work.
I just sent one urgent mail, ate, and slept.
As a normal part of my business and e-mailing, I am freely using tens of thousands and photos, e-mails, work documents, and other things going back 19.5 years.
I have ALL PC documents/photos/files I have created since 3/8/1999 (when I first got internet and got online with a borrowed 486 PC) right here on this box. That would not be possible if I accepted every shit upgrade from Adobe, MS, etc. and my computer would be 10x slower. Do you know how fast a 300mhz PIII/64mb RAM operating system/application software (like Photoshop 5.0, etc.) meant for a 300mhz PIII/64mb RAM runs on a 2.4ghz P4 w/1gb RAM (can't use the 3gb it had, it give the fake error that the HIMEM file is missing)? A hell of a lot faster than any computer can run Windows 10, that Norton nightmare antivirus which is a virus itself, Outbreak Express, and whatever crap online subscription Adobe/Office 365 trash that's out there.
On any computer you can buy at the store, click on a text document, and sit there like a moron for 20-60 seconds while it starts up the bloatware program that opens text documents and checks all the updates (Do we really need bloatware for text?!?! And do we really have different TEXT needs in 2018 than we did in 1998?). Regardless of 100 words or 10,000 words, any of the 10,000+ Wordpad documents I have and refer to constantly open up in 3 seconds. And instead of using whatever garbage bundled image viewer MS ripped off of ACDSee in 2000, I am USING the version of ACDSee from 2000, and I can flip through 200 photos in five folders in 30 seconds, just the scroll of the mouse wheel (I use a Belkin trackball) does a slideshow where I can actually see 3-4 photos per second.
Man, you need a faster computer with 8gb of RAM.
No, you need less garbage software in it.
Computer science is going backwards.
There is no computer available since what I had in 2001 that is as fast as what I had in 2001 so I am still using that setup. Most people (not on this forum dedicated to a local box e-mail client) couldn't find an e-mail from last year if their life depended on it (though I should note that gmail, etc. are now apparently keeping mail forever, the free Yahoo! and Hotmail of 15 years ago would periodically delete or lose it, no matter, though, you'll use 10gb of bandwidth just trying to search for a 2004 e-mail on a server in California, and your search parameters are very limited to subject field or sender. I keep all 400,000 of my messages on my box, with 50+ backup copies of it nearby), and I still refer to mail from the 1990s on a daily basis for technical issues and to see previous conversations with people writing to me (e.g. to see how many times someone has sent me the exact same question in 15 years hoping for a different answer).
It would have been a LOT easier if I just went online at Tiger Direct at 6pm Friday and paid $200-500 for a new PC (or $60-150 for one off lease) with Windows 10, took the weekend off, and had it delivered Monday, but none of my hardware would work, and much of my data would not work, I couldn't do backups, and I would risk infection constantly.
I still use the same PaperPort parallel scanner I bought in 1/2000 for $39. I've scanned over 100,000 things, I'm sure. I've even scanned at least 1,000 scans of hardware (first step in my reverse engineering process) on top of the glass platen.
I just hate throwing stuff away that works. But all the people around me who preach about the environment do it all the time.
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Notice: This message is irrelevant to all, it just explains what I've been doing. The discussion of the problem continues with the next message.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A half hour after my last post Friday afternoon, the computer I was using died and it took me 69 hours to get back online with another computer after trying to set up my whole hardware/software/data set on three different computers.
That most recent computer was the best one I've ever had, I'd bought it at a live auction 5/2006 for $5. Since it was probably new 1/2006, $200 might have been a fair price for it, but bidders were not at that auction for computers, they were extremely focused on other items and let me walk away with three heaping Beverly Hillbillies-sized truckloads for $2,500.
It was almost new, less than 6 months old, a generic white box Chinese full size tower PC with a Taiwan Asus P4B533 motherboard with a 2ghz Pentium 4, large IBM Death Star IDE drive (120gb), and I think 1gb RAM. Such a deal, though I didn't then need it.
I'd always liked Asus (and Acer), now I really do.
Before, I liked to use low end Chinese-made computers called GQ ("Good Quality") that were a store brand of Fry's Electronics. Every year or two I'd buy one from the weekly ad for $149-249 and put the motherboard in one of my two 19" PC rack cases, put in two of my own removable IDE hard drive racks (I have over 50 of them with hard drives, of all my data backed up, I use Acronis True Image 9.0 to clone my drives and put on the shelf and rotate some of them to the warehouse and garage in case of flood, fire, theft). Those cheap computers suited my needs, but the Chinese (Realtek) drivers weren't so good.
I must have gone through 3 or 4 of them in seven years, and they weren't sold anymore, or the ones sold no longer had drivers for my OS and were too fast for my OS to work, the last one gotten for $199 had to be resold to a friend for a loss when I could not make it work with 98SE.
I was used to using those, and they no longer sold them, and I again needed one after two years with the last one, so the night before Thanksgiving 2010, I tracked down a used Chinese Fry's GQ PC on Craigslist. I spent hours getting it in the case and getting it all set up with my software and drivers, and got to work at 3am Thanksgiving morning.
And the motherboard died 30 minutes later!
I somehow did something else for a month, then on Christmas 2010, I just said to hell with it, can't find another GQ now but didn't want to use the 19" rack hoping to fix that one later, and I pulled out this $5 Asus PC, drilled holes all across the center line of the top and bottom of the case which was a pretty fat 8" wide full size ATX tower case with very square sides, put rack slides on there, rearranged my office rack to have the extra space needed for this fat 8" wide PC tower slung sideways, and spent a lot of time getting the drivers working for Windows 98 and getting all my data and drive racks in there. It worked well, and the Asus drivers were far superior to the Chinese ones, less buggy, less crashing, less conflicts over the years.
Aside from burning out a power supply 7/2017 (which might have been avoided with dusting and cleaning, but I only did that on my computers when I had them out of the rack for repairs but this was never out for repairs, it just worked and worked), but otherwise ran 24 hours a day here (and one and off the road 20-30x) for 8 years straight. Pretty good for $5.
Buy Asus(tm).
But last Friday afternoon, when I was finally trying to solve the 5 month old large attachment size SMTP problem (when I send 10mb of photos, I often have to re-send it 5 or 10 times, sometimes even 50 times, as it bombs partway through with an SMTP blocked error that I know is fake).
The forum suggestion to check all my connections on DSL and routers was a good one, so I got to it. While doing that, no relation, the computer froze but the mouse still moved. I had to restart and did. But it didn't. It was black forever.
Took about 8 hours that day and the next to figure out that the power supply from last summer was still good and the motherboard itself was bad. It was not connectivity or anything with connectors, something inside the board had died after 8 years of use. It would not even go to the BIOS screen or initiate any floppy drive or hard drive activity. I could not find the same exact model/revision Asus P4B533 motherboard with any sellers for a fair price so I could just drop it in without changing drivers, and I needed it NOW. I thought I could do it in one day, it took almost 3 days, or 69 hours not including sleep.
The first one was an Intel P4 some years older, it and it's hardware could not run my OS, so I gave up on that one.
I went to my warehouse on the third day and got an IBM ThinkCentre (ugh) 2.4ghz P4 3gb RAM tower that came in at some point I can't recall, and it was just about 12 hours work to get that one working properly. The built-in network card and sound that claim to have 98SE drivers will NOT work with 98SE, and some web guy said that, too, but I was able to disable that stuff in the very, very sophisticated BIOS it has and use a PCI NIC and a PCI Ensoniq AudioPCI (USA made in the late 90s, very interesting to compare the PCB/gold quality and application technique to the Chinese made PC cards), and got it all installed, all my data in, and just set it sideways in my rack supported by my scanner I can't use until I properly rack it and got back to work.
I just sent one urgent mail, ate, and slept.
As a normal part of my business and e-mailing, I am freely using tens of thousands and photos, e-mails, work documents, and other things going back 19.5 years.
I have ALL PC documents/photos/files I have created since 3/8/1999 (when I first got internet and got online with a borrowed 486 PC) right here on this box. That would not be possible if I accepted every shit upgrade from Adobe, MS, etc. and my computer would be 10x slower. Do you know how fast a 300mhz PIII/64mb RAM operating system/application software (like Photoshop 5.0, etc.) meant for a 300mhz PIII/64mb RAM runs on a 2.4ghz P4 w/1gb RAM (can't use the 3gb it had, it give the fake error that the HIMEM file is missing)? A hell of a lot faster than any computer can run Windows 10, that Norton nightmare antivirus which is a virus itself, Outbreak Express, and whatever crap online subscription Adobe/Office 365 trash that's out there.
On any computer you can buy at the store, click on a text document, and sit there like a moron for 20-60 seconds while it starts up the bloatware program that opens text documents and checks all the updates (Do we really need bloatware for text?!?! And do we really have different TEXT needs in 2018 than we did in 1998?). Regardless of 100 words or 10,000 words, any of the 10,000+ Wordpad documents I have and refer to constantly open up in 3 seconds. And instead of using whatever garbage bundled image viewer MS ripped off of ACDSee in 2000, I am USING the version of ACDSee from 2000, and I can flip through 200 photos in five folders in 30 seconds, just the scroll of the mouse wheel (I use a Belkin trackball) does a slideshow where I can actually see 3-4 photos per second.
Man, you need a faster computer with 8gb of RAM.
No, you need less garbage software in it.
Computer science is going backwards.
There is no computer available since what I had in 2001 that is as fast as what I had in 2001 so I am still using that setup. Most people (not on this forum dedicated to a local box e-mail client) couldn't find an e-mail from last year if their life depended on it (though I should note that gmail, etc. are now apparently keeping mail forever, the free Yahoo! and Hotmail of 15 years ago would periodically delete or lose it, no matter, though, you'll use 10gb of bandwidth just trying to search for a 2004 e-mail on a server in California, and your search parameters are very limited to subject field or sender. I keep all 400,000 of my messages on my box, with 50+ backup copies of it nearby), and I still refer to mail from the 1990s on a daily basis for technical issues and to see previous conversations with people writing to me (e.g. to see how many times someone has sent me the exact same question in 15 years hoping for a different answer).
It would have been a LOT easier if I just went online at Tiger Direct at 6pm Friday and paid $200-500 for a new PC (or $60-150 for one off lease) with Windows 10, took the weekend off, and had it delivered Monday, but none of my hardware would work, and much of my data would not work, I couldn't do backups, and I would risk infection constantly.
I still use the same PaperPort parallel scanner I bought in 1/2000 for $39. I've scanned over 100,000 things, I'm sure. I've even scanned at least 1,000 scans of hardware (first step in my reverse engineering process) on top of the glass platen.
I just hate throwing stuff away that works. But all the people around me who preach about the environment do it all the time.
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SMCorp
- Posts: 110
- Joined: September 6th, 2007, 9:26 pm
- Location: USA
Re: SMTP won't send Thunderbird 2.0.0.23
Hi tanstaafl, you'd said, "Both POP3 and IMAP accounts using the SMTP protocol to send messages. They'd normally use the same SMTP server."
Thanks for telling me this. I didn't know that. Neither, sadly, did the chief IT tech at my webhosting company who told me that POP3 was too tired and moving to IMAP would surely solve this problem.
So back to the problem, a whole other computer here, fresh installation of windows and all drivers (but not application software, it's the same software, the reason I installed Windows on this drive that already had Windows is I was sick of all the bogus error with files, just 20 minutes fixed all that, then I could get back to work installing the drivers for this different set of hardware.
However, as noted in my previous long message, the built-in NIC had "98SE" drivers that don't work with 98SE, so I had to use some sort of PCI card, and the only way to do it without spending hours on it was to use the one from my last computer that died Friday. I have two identical ones in stock, but the second one doesn't work.
So technically, I am still using my same NIC, but it is a single chip solution SMC card, and if you understand electronics as well as I do from having earned my living from it for decades, you'll know it's not too likely that a silicon chip that always worked now doesn't work on part of the chip but another part does not even though it still does all functions. The NIC isn't the problem, please trust me.
And my notebook, tablet, and smartphones are using the internet from this same 1/4 + WiFi Linksys router without any hesitation or disconnects, so the chances are low that the router is the problem, or the DSL modem for the same reason.
And since various episodes of sending mail result in many errors of not enough space available in the sent file and Thunderbird is a turkey on file size/entries (can't keep thousands of unanswered messages from your Inbox in your, uh, Inbox, you have to move them out), I still suspect this is a Thunderbird problem.
I suppose I could drag my profile out and then try to send a huge 15mb mail with NO other messages existing in storage, to see if that works, but I strongly suspect it would be fine. It's my volume of mail that is doing it, I'm just wondering if there is a workaround I can use to get around it a while longer.
I don't think I said I had a strong WiFi signal, as it wouldn't relate to this, this is a rack mounted PC with a PCI NIC in it. The router is outside the rack about 2" from it, connected around the rear with a 3' cable. I don't have proof that router is not the problem, nor the DSL modem, but due to the volume of mail, errors seen, and knowledge that Thunderbird can't handle size, I'm mainly looking here.
Thanks for telling me this. I didn't know that. Neither, sadly, did the chief IT tech at my webhosting company who told me that POP3 was too tired and moving to IMAP would surely solve this problem.
So back to the problem, a whole other computer here, fresh installation of windows and all drivers (but not application software, it's the same software, the reason I installed Windows on this drive that already had Windows is I was sick of all the bogus error with files, just 20 minutes fixed all that, then I could get back to work installing the drivers for this different set of hardware.
However, as noted in my previous long message, the built-in NIC had "98SE" drivers that don't work with 98SE, so I had to use some sort of PCI card, and the only way to do it without spending hours on it was to use the one from my last computer that died Friday. I have two identical ones in stock, but the second one doesn't work.
So technically, I am still using my same NIC, but it is a single chip solution SMC card, and if you understand electronics as well as I do from having earned my living from it for decades, you'll know it's not too likely that a silicon chip that always worked now doesn't work on part of the chip but another part does not even though it still does all functions. The NIC isn't the problem, please trust me.
And my notebook, tablet, and smartphones are using the internet from this same 1/4 + WiFi Linksys router without any hesitation or disconnects, so the chances are low that the router is the problem, or the DSL modem for the same reason.
And since various episodes of sending mail result in many errors of not enough space available in the sent file and Thunderbird is a turkey on file size/entries (can't keep thousands of unanswered messages from your Inbox in your, uh, Inbox, you have to move them out), I still suspect this is a Thunderbird problem.
I suppose I could drag my profile out and then try to send a huge 15mb mail with NO other messages existing in storage, to see if that works, but I strongly suspect it would be fine. It's my volume of mail that is doing it, I'm just wondering if there is a workaround I can use to get around it a while longer.
I don't think I said I had a strong WiFi signal, as it wouldn't relate to this, this is a rack mounted PC with a PCI NIC in it. The router is outside the rack about 2" from it, connected around the rear with a 3' cable. I don't have proof that router is not the problem, nor the DSL modem, but due to the volume of mail, errors seen, and knowledge that Thunderbird can't handle size, I'm mainly looking here.
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tanstaafl
- Moderator
- Posts: 49647
- Joined: July 30th, 2003, 5:06 pm
Re: SMTP won't send Thunderbird 2.0.0.23
Thunderbird not being able to handle size is the symptom, not the cause of a problem. I suggest you try replacing the telephone cable between the DSL modem and the jack in the wall. That was what went when I had troubles with DSL. I was convinced for months that it wasn't my hardware because it only had problems with Thunderbird.