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74.8.1 severed ISP connection

User Help for Mozilla Thunderbird
SteelyDon

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Post Posted November 20th, 2020, 1:41 pm

Suddenly, after the auto update, we were booted offline. The configuration used before does not work to 'set up email.' The only SSL configuration which will work is NONE. The system then does the RED WARNING thing; "You can connect with these settings, but there will be no encryption, danger, danger" etc.. The ISP had me check webmail, the regular settings work, but no longer do they work with Thunderbird.
The ISP says "It's not our responsibility to make Thunderbird work," which I suppose is true. Is there a way to configure the settings?

DanRaisch
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Post Posted November 20th, 2020, 3:31 pm

Checking web mail tells one nothing about the settings in Thunderbird because different servers are involved when using an email client compared to working with web mail. Your ISP should know that.

Have you tried accepting the settings with "None" to see if you can then send and receive mail? That would be safe for temporary, testing purposes so long as you don't download any attachments from or open messages from unknown senders.

SteelyDon

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Post Posted November 20th, 2020, 6:24 pm

With "NONE" happening, the thing connected and downloaded some mail. Now I have unsecured email. Given the nature of some of the mail [business,] I can't leave it like that. I suppose I can just try various security settings and see if any of them work.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted November 20th, 2020, 7:28 pm

You can change the account settings in tools -> account settings. The problem is knowing what to change them to. See if you can use STARTTLS (rather than none) to automatically upgrade a insecure connection to a secure connection

"The configuration used before does not work to 'set up email.'"
Why did you need to setup mail again after switching back to working online? Details and error messages please, if you can remember them.
Were you using a POP or IMAP account?

Its a hassle notifying people of a new email address but you might want to consider switching to a major free email provider like gmail.com or outlook.com . ISPs make poor email providers because they view it as just a cost center. You could configure gmail or outlook webmail to periodically automatically fetch new mail from your ISP mailbox and store it in the webmail inbox, where Thunderbird will find it when it checks for new mail. That makes it easier to avoid losing email from people you didn't notify of your new email address.

SteelyDon

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Post Posted November 21st, 2020, 2:13 am

The only configuration which will allow connection is 'NONE' regarding encryption. Thinking that I might sort out the 'updated' profile nightmare, I tried to sort that, but I'm not qualified and made T'bird unlaunchable, it can't find the profiles. They are there, but if it doesn't see them, so be it.
T'bird is not installed, and won't. So, to begin afresh, can I just erase all traces of Thunderbird and Mozilla from the computer, thus putting me back to where I was 9 hours ago and try a fresh install? Thanks.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted November 21st, 2020, 9:38 pm

You could delete the profile, delete Thunderbird's profiles.ini (don't delete the one for Firefox by mistake) and uninstall Thunderbird. But I suggest you just delete the account instead and add it again. See http://kb.mozillazine.org/Go_back_to_an ... hunderbird for links to older setup programs if you don't want to try the current one.

Can you post a link to the email client settings for your ISP?
What is the part of your email address after the '@' (the domain)?
Does your ISP use yahoo mail servers?

That will give me a starting point to browse around and see if I can find another configuration that supports StartTLS or SSL. You probably just need to do a manual configuration in the new account wizard (once we figure out what the right settings are). The correct settings may have changed and the information in the Mozilla ISP remote database not updated for your ISP yet.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted November 21st, 2020, 9:54 pm

As an aside, ISPs are poor email providers since they view email as just a cost center. Gmail no longer scans email to let it customize ads. The risk nowadays seem to be when you sign up for shopping services and give them permission in some fine print in the terms & conditions to access your email. That risk is not limited to Gmail, the same thing occurs with Outlook.com

https://www.wsj.com/articles/techs-dirt ... 1530544442

Its a hassle changing email addresses but long term you might be happier using a Gmail IMAP account. Due to its popularity it gets the best support by the developers.

SteelyDon

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Post Posted November 22nd, 2020, 6:25 pm

Going in a somewhat different direction: wifey has an older version of Tbird on her Win7 laptop, recently retired, with all her email data (except for a few weeks) in the profile. It seems to me that the best thing would be to clean Thunderbird from the new machine, copy the old profile from the Win7 to a USB stick, download to the new machine an older version from your link, and swap the profile which it creates for the old Win7 profile on the stick. Eh?
Thanks

Edit: This raises a concern that the older version to download may be set to update version by default! [-X

SteelyDon

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Post Posted November 23rd, 2020, 12:05 am

This seems to be Mozilla's version of events:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/ca ... e-messages

In part, it read: ""Your email account provider can give you connection information about their servers (probably on their website). Make sure your account settings match these settings.""

Well, sort of. They said "Yeah, a lot of customers got caught in the update. The only thing that works here is to set encryption/security to NONE." There it rests, with no email.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted November 23rd, 2020, 10:35 am

If you read more closely there is a link to https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/th ... -0-and-1-1 which suggests setting security.tls.version.min to 1 using the config editor to enable using older versions of the TLS standard. Apparently Thunderbird 78 requires the mail server to support later versions of the TLS protocol, which your ISP might not.

Email provider's documentation typically talks about SSL being used for the secure connection but its really TLS.

SteelyDon

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Post Posted November 23rd, 2020, 7:44 pm

It indeed seems that (the profile problem aside) Mozilla changed the minimum security level to 1.2. My ISP will not raise their security level.
The first thing I need to do is ask the question: is 1.0 insufficiently secure? We do some business via this laptop, so security is of some importance. I need to know if I should change the TLS via config:change or... take other steps. Thanks.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted November 23rd, 2020, 9:07 pm

"is 1.0 insufficiently secure? "

That depends upon your situation, but I'd say yes. One of the main reasons 1.0 is obsolete is its become vulnerable to man in the middle attacks. Its also three versions behind the current standard so its low hanging fruit for anybody who wants to intercept your data.

If you're using a email account for business I suggest you consider either getting a free Gmail account or invest about $25/year in a inexpensive paid account. The latter will give you real customer support and have an incentive to keep the software up-to-date.

SteelyDon

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Post Posted November 23rd, 2020, 10:15 pm

Thanks, but it will still have to go through my ISP. Would that matter? We have no choice of ISP in this condo complex. The ISO is the email provider.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted November 23rd, 2020, 10:37 pm

It doesn't matter what ISP you use. Your ISP is not going to block you from using Gmail, and can't snoop on a secure connection you make from Thunderbird to the Gmail mail server.

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