Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

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fixer1234
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Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by fixer1234 »

Particulars: Thunderbird 68.12.0 in Linux maintained by the package manager

Issue: Modifying POP or SMTP server settings results in the account not working, with error messages of password or username error.

Background: One of my email accounts is with Verizon. Until a few years ago, their POP server was pop.verizon.net and their SMTP server was smtp.verizon.net. Then they moved their email service to AOL. The POP server became pop.aol.com and the SMTP server became smtp.aol.com, but the email address remained the same (name@verizon.net). I recently set up a new computer and somehow copied an old Thunderbird profile with the Verizon account set to the verizon.net servers. This continued to work until yesterday.

Yesterday, I tried to send an email and got error messages about the SMTP password. That's when I noticed the incorrect server settings. I tried editing the POP and SMTP server names in the account preferences and that gave Thunderbird indigestion.

What I did and what happened:
  • Deleted the verizon.net SMTP server, deleted the Verizon SMTP password from the password list, added the AOL SMTP server, pointed the Verizon email account to the AOL SMTP server in the account preferences. I restarted Thunderbird after the deletions and after the additions/changes. Thunderbird prompted for the SMTP password.
  • Trying to send an email, Thunderbird goes into a failure loop claiming the password is wrong. It may also have provided error messages that the username was not recognized (did this a lot of times and at this point am not sure whether that was associated with SMTP or POP).
  • Edited the POP server name in account preferences to the AOL server, deleted the Verizon POP password, restarted Thunderbird. Thunderbird prompted for the POP password. Again, got a failure loop with error messages about the password and/or username not recognized.
  • Noticed that even though the POP server is correctly set to AOL (and Thunderbird was restarted), the password is saved with an association to pop.verizon.net, so the wrong server is stuck in Thunderbird somewhere.
  • I started over with a fresh copy of the profile based on the verizon.net servers. This time the account worked (but with the wrong servers). I repeated the steps to edit in the correct server names and got exactly the same failures. So there might have been some corruption causing the original problem, but the procedure to edit the server names consistently causes the account to fail.
Clarification: Please note that the issue I'm writing about is a Thunderbird problem of an inability to modify the server settings. The Verizon account already has an app password and is working successfully on a number of other computers that are configured with the aol.com servers. On the problem computer, I have a working (for now) Verizon account based on the wrong servers. I would like to get the correct servers associated with the account.

Question: The prescribed procedure for editing the settings isn't working. I could try creating a new account with the correct server settings, but it isn't clear whether there can be two accounts with the same email address (to retain historical messages), or how to move/copy old messages from just that one account to the new account (there's clearly some behind-the-scenes association going on and it isn't obvious what collection of files to copy and whether the old messages will be correctly associated based on the email account name but different servers). My objective is to get the profile working with the correct server settings and all of my old messages accessible.
Last edited by fixer1234 on July 16th, 2021, 12:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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WaltS48
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Re: Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by WaltS48 »

Every time I created my Verizon account in testing a release candidate, the server was pop.verizon.net from the ISPDB in Thunderbird, The outgoing server was smtp.verizon.net.

The accounts worked for me up until Tuesday when sending of the password failed, and I also couldn't create a new account in a test profile.

I understand it is due to a need for some new thing to allow Verizon to work with third-party apps. Sorry, I can't help with that.

The account isn't that important to me, so I removed it from all my Thunderbird versions. I can check it once a week on the AOL website.
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fixer1234
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Joined: July 15th, 2021, 9:32 am

Re: Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by fixer1234 »

WaltS48, thanks for the input. Sounds like my original symptom wasn't corruption, then. Apparently, AOL has continued to keep the verizon.net designations working (maybe to avoid customer complaints?). I always assumed that those showing up in the automated setup was due to them being in a database that was never updated (and they've continued to work until now). The real solution, though, is to use the correct server settings since that was the instructions from AOL; those have always worked, and they are unaffected by whatever AOL is doing for third party apps.

Editing the server settings should be trivial, but something in Thunderbird isn't working as described. So I'm looking for a way to get to a working profile with the correct server specs and my old messages.
Last edited by fixer1234 on July 16th, 2021, 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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WaltS48
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Re: Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by WaltS48 »

I'd suggest connecting to web mail and conducting a search for how to use Verizon emails with third-party apps, or just a general web search.
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sfhowes
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Re: Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by sfhowes »

I think you have to create an app password and use that in TB instead of the account password. With AOL accounts (imap.aol.com, pop.aol.com & smtp.aol.com), they require either an app password or OAuth2 authentication. Since TB supports OAuth2 for AOL (and Yahoo, gmail etc.), an app password isn't needed. But with apps that don't support OAuth2, such as the Outlook app on my phone, an app password is needed. TB doesn't support OAuth2 for the Verizon servers pop.verizon.net or smtp.verizon.net, so create an app password. If you can access your Verizon account through the AOL site, see if these directions work:

https://help.aol.com/articles/Create-an ... p-password

Verizon IMAP accounts connect to imap.aol.com and smtp.verizon.net, so you should be able to use OAuth2 for the incoming and an app password/normal password authentication for the outgoing, smtp.verizon.net.

https://help.aol.com/articles/how-do-i- ... n-net-mail

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1343923
fixer1234
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Re: Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by fixer1234 »

For clarification, I already have created an app password (done when Verizon switched to AOL). I have Verizon email working on a number of computers. All except this one computer are configured with the aol.com servers and have never had a problem. The one configured with verizon.net servers is currently working again, so the SMTP password glitch was temporary (or AOL is signalling the end of the grace period on reconfiguring our server settings).

However, when I tried to simply edit the server settings, neither SMTP nor POP worked. Although the verizon.net server designations still appear to work with AOL (other than what may have been a temporary glitch), AOL's advice is to use the aol.com servers. So my objective is to fix this permanently with the recommended settings and maintain all of the computers with the same settings (and eliminate a variable if I need to diagnose a future problem).

The issue I'm concerned with is Thunderbird's inability to use the modified server settings (plus the apparent association of the account with verizon.net, which does not change internally even though the server setting displays aol.com). This is purely a Thunderbird issue rather than a Verizon one.
sfhowes
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Re: Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by sfhowes »

It might help to remove the passwords from Saved Passwords in Options (Edit/Preferences), then restart TB and enter the app password (for Verizon servers) or account password (for AOL servers and OAuth2).
fixer1234
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Re: Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by fixer1234 »

sfhowes wrote:It might help to remove the passwords from Saved Passwords in Options (Edit/Preferences), then restart TB and enter the app password (for Verizon servers) or account password (for AOL servers and OAuth2).
sfhowes, thanks. Already did that (described in the question). The original stored password was correct, and works again. Deleting it, restarting TB, and entering the password at the prompt, stored the correct password but the account still produced the error message. Both verizon.net and aol.com use the same password, so the password should have worked even if Thunderbird is mixing and matching server information. I suspect the error messages are a cryptic artifact of some other issue.

I just edited the question to clarify that the problem I'm focused on is how to modify the server settings, which consistently doesn't work as described.
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WaltS48
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Re: Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by WaltS48 »

Where in the Verizon moving its email to AOL servers notification were the instructions to use aol.com servers?

I don't recall seeing that, and my use of verizon.net servers had been working for years, worked in each release candidate I tested up until this week.
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sfhowes
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Re: Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by sfhowes »

WaltS48 wrote:Where in the Verizon moving its email to AOL servers notification were the instructions to use aol.com servers?

I don't recall seeing that, and my use of verizon.net servers had been working for years, worked in each release candidate I tested up until this week.
The link I posted does indicate imap.aol.com for Verizon IMAP accounts, but I would like to know if Verizon accounts can use pop.aol.com and smtp.aol.com, or must they stay with the verizon.net servers for POP and SMTP. Or, maybe the Yahoo servers imap.mail.yahoo.com etc. Either way, that would make the authentication straightforward OAuth2.
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WaltS48
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Re: Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by WaltS48 »

I just tried setting up my Verizon account using the pop.aol.com and smtp.aol.com servers using manual configuration in a test profile and failed.

I was able to create an IMAP account using imap.aol.com and smtp.aol.com as the servers in that test profile.

These are the instructions I used years ago when Verizon migrated to AOL servers.

Update Verizon.net account info in POP3 email applications

Maybe we all have to switch to IMAP accounts.

The OP wants to keep old messages, and I would think they should be there if they don't remove the account.
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sfhowes
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Re: Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by sfhowes »

Good to know. So, imap.aol.com & smtp.aol.com work with a verizon.net address and OAuth2, but POP access works only with pop.verizon.net, smtp.verizon.net, normal password authentication but with an app password. I guess the app password isn't needed for existing setups, but would be if the account password were changed or the account was now added to a new profile or different device.
fixer1234
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Re: Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by fixer1234 »

WaltS48 and sfhowes, thanks for the followup and sticking with this problem. The plot thickens, and it looks like the issue is confounded with what AOL has done.

When Verizon switched to AOL mail four years ago, AOL provided instructions on how to switch, including the new server settings. Two years ago, there was an app password to get, but the primary change at the time of the AOL move was the server settings, and the notice included, "Take action by April 27, 2017 or you'll lose access to your verizon.net email account." Those new settings were what is still currently displayed for AOL mail at https://help.aol.com/articles/how-do-i- ... y-aol-mail--the aol.com servers for POP, IMAP, and SMTP. The last time I reverified the settings was two years ago, when I documented the settings with screen grabs. AOL apparently continued to support the verizon.net servers, despite the warning, and the verizon.net servers continued to be what was populated in the lookup for Thunderbird's automated setup. I always just replaced the settings manually with the aol.com servers. The aol.com settings have always worked since then, and did not experience the SMTP password glitch of a few days ago.

It appears that at some point in the last few years, AOL decided to keep the verizon.net servers as the standard for verizon.net accounts (the current web pages are dated Dec 2019). All of the original instructions have been deleted from the web site since they now conflict. There is a new page for verizon.net email, https://help.aol.com/articles/how-do-i- ... n-net-mail, and both the verizon.net and aol.com pages now start with a notice of the difference (a "hint" if your email account is labelled with the other server name).

It appears the situation is now reversed. People who switched servers to aol.com have continued to be supported with those servers. But efforts now to create or change a verizon.net email account to aol.com servers fails.

I experienced multiple failures in Thunderbird trying to modify the server. If AOL is now preventing the change, that could explain the password and username error messages. However, there is also the matter of Thunderbird having some internal association with verizon.net server settings that survives simply editing the server name; even after deleting the old password, changing the server setting in the account preferences to aol.com, restarting, and replying to the password prompt, the password is stored with an association to pop.verizon.net.

re: retaining old messages, this may be overtaken by events. It looks like I won't be able to create a new association with aol.com (although I could copy a profile that already contains it). The issue was as follows:
  • I'm not sure whether Thunderbird will allow two accounts with the same email address (one the current with verizon.net servers and old messages, and another with aol.com servers for new messages).
  • If I could have created a new account with aol.com servers, it wasn't clear how to get the old messages into it.
So Thunderbird isn't working as it should to modify server settings (at least the hidden association with the old server). But the problem is confounded by AOL, making fixing the problem a moot point. Thanks again to you both for helping get to the bottom of this.
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WaltS48
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Re: Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by WaltS48 »

Well. I couldn't care less about my Verizon account in Thunderbird, but here are my server settings for a working IMAP account in case it helps someone.

Incoming server

Server name: imap.aol.com
Port: 993
Username: <user>@verizon.net (Your email address)
Connection security: SSL/TLS
Authentication method: OAuth2

Outgoing (SMTP)

Server name: smtp.verizon.net
Port: 465
Username: <user>@verizon.net (Your email address)
Connection security: SSL/TLS
Authentication method: OAuth2

At the account level in account settings, verify that the account is using the correct SMTP server.

I had mine setup for a different server and could receive, but not send mail.
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estlincs
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Re: Modify server settings not working. [Linux.]

Post by estlincs »

I have been using TB (currently: 78.12.0) for as long as I can remember. (the oldest email I can find is 2006). We have a Verizon email address which we use to login through AOL. About a week ago TB stopped sending mail and simply states:

"Login to server smtp.verizon.net with username Myusername@verizon.net failed."

I then get a 'Retry', 'Enter New Password', or 'Cancel' option.

Retry does not work. Enter New Password does not work (it just loops back to the above error). Cancel cancels.

We use the IMAP settings. TB does show sent emails that were sent via AOL webmail.

I can access and send email via the web app and also Samsung Email app on my phone.

I had to add a new outgoing server to TB since when I was trying to edit the old server there was no OAuth2 setting. I confirmed that my settings are what is to believed as correct. Removed PWs from TB, restarted, re-entered my PW to AOL and I am still not able to send messages via TB.

I have checked the settings a hundred times because I really hate using the AOL webmail. Any thoughts? Thank you!
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