Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailboxes

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GeorgeNL
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Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailboxes

Post by GeorgeNL »

Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailboxes.

Three (POP3) mailfolders (mailboxes) don’t show any emails anymore (including the Inbox).
It happened instantly after Repair, in the Mailbox-properties.

To be sure, I ‘repaired’ a fourth small mailbox, waited for two hours, and did not touch Thunderbird. The emails in the box dissapeared immediately at Repair. Restarting Thunderbird does not help.

But when new email arives, I do see them in the inbox, or in the other boxes. But only the few néw ones, not the many other ones.
Repair, in detail:
I saw 3 new emails in the box. I selected one email, and could read the email in the preview-pane.
I right-clicked the mailbox > Properties. I pressed Repair. Immediately the preview-pane was empty.
I pressed OK, and all tree emails were gone. However, on the right side, there were three little hollow stars, indicating there had been three emails.
But after restarting Thunderbird, the field is completely empty. And above, in the Tab-header, there often is a little thingy moving left-right when I select an empty mailbox, as if it tries to load the emails.

NOTE: Tanstaafi advised to report real bugs at Bugzilla. I will do so, if no-one has an answer here. But the following can be very useful for regular users, facing the same problem. It might help.

The fault is in the Profile-folder.

The following did NOT work:

1. Repair again, and wait an hour. Do nothing else in Thunderbird.
(To repair: right-click a mailbox in Thunderbird > Properties > knob Repair. But better don’t do it, if you still can see al your emails. :-) )

2. Delete the MSF-files of these mailboxes in the Profiles-folder, in Windows Explorer.
Thunderbird will create new MSF-files at restart.

(First enable 'Show hidden files and folders' in Explorer > Menu bar > View > Options > Change > Tab View. And un-check ‘Hide extentions for known file types’) On Mac, use Finder.
To find the Program-folder, start Tunderbird > Menu bar > Tools > Account settings. Choose an account > Server settings. At the bottom you'll see the Local Directory (=folder) path. The profile-folder is the one named ‘4rhj5ck6’, or someting. Find it in Explorer. The MSF-files are stored in the subfolder ‘Main’ > Local Folders.

The mailboxes (Mbox-files) have no extenson. The names of the files are: inbox, sent, drafts, or self-created mailboxes etc.. For every mailbox, there is a MSF-file with the same name, but have an extension .msf. The MSF-file are indexes of the emails in that mailbox.
‘Repair’, recreates corrupted MSF-files, but does not solve other causes.

3. Disable the Quick Filter.
In he Menu Bar, there is a button Quick filter. Click on it. A Menu Bar appears above the email-list. On the right side of it, there is a pin-Icon. Clicking it, makes the icon a bit darker, and enables the Quick Filter. Make sure, it is disabled (lighter color). Exit the filter by clicking the Quick Filter knob again.

4. Reinstall Thunderbird?
It probably won’t help. The problem is very likely in your Profile-folder (contaning your email, accounts, passwords, et), and not in the program itself.
But I downloaded the newest beta 95.0B2. I completely uninstalled Thunderbird first. I installed the Beta. Winkey+R opened the Windows-Run-box. And entering: thunderbird -P , started the Tunderbird Profile Manager. I clicked: Create Profile, and Browsed to my Profile-folder, with all the emails. That worked fine, but did not solve the problem.

5. Do the problematic mailboxes actually exist?
Check in Explorer, in the Profiles-folder, subfolder ‘Main’ > Local Foldes. Look for the Mbox-files (without extension) with the same name as in Thunderbird. (inbox, sent, drafts, or self-created mailboxes etc.). They may have been removed by a virusscanner, or might be accidently deleted.

6. Do these mailboxes actually contain emails?
Check the file-sizes of the Mbox-files. If they are larger than – let’s say 100 Kb – the contain email. Mine are 25MB, 90MB, and 1900MB.
To be sure, open a Mbox-file with Notepad. It really is a Notepad .txt file.
In Explorer, right-click a Mbox-file > Open with.. > choose Notepad.
Each email starts with ‘From..’. You’ll see a lot of HTML-code, and coded text.
In my case: Two looked good. One may be corrupted: it had a lot of open space.

7. Virisscan problem? (Here: Bitdefender)
Check the Quarantaine-box. Here, there was nothing. No message either. My Mbox-files are still there. Thunderbird was just installed on a new computer, and worked fine. The problem immediately arose, after I did the repair.
I also disabled the Spam filter. No results. (It checks néw emails, not older ones.)
(I haven’t uninstalled Bitdefender yet, and do not expect much of it, but who knows?)


OTHER actions, that did NOT work:

8. I sent myself an email, and – all of a sudden – the inbox showed that email, and another new email too! But not any of the older ones. I clicked 'Repair' and OK again. The two emails immediately vanished. I did not touch Thunderbird for an hour. Same problem.
I sent email with two different accounts, that use the other (empty) mailboxes. Same story: I could see the new emails (not the others) in the mailbox. But as soon as I did a Repair, they vanshed.

9. I edited a small Mbox-file in Notepad (backupped first). I deleted everything exept óne email, that looked fine. I saved the file, deleted the MFS-file of it, and restarted Thunderbird. But the mailbox stayed empty.
I wondered, if a Mbox-file should have a Header or Footer, or something? Some of the working mailboxes seem to have one..

10. I copied a wórking MBOX-file elswhere, renamed it, and dropped it back to the (pop3) "Local Folders" folder. Thunderbird did see the new mailbox in the list, and created a new MSF-file for it in Explorer too. But it did not display any email in the mailbox.

11. I Repaired a good working IMAP-mailbox. The email-list flickered for a split second, but the list was still there. But when I click in a POP3 mailbox on ‘Repair’, I see nothing happening. No flicker. And when I click OK, all emails vanish.

12. I copied the profile folder to a different computer, but got the same problem.

13. In Thunderbird settings, I changed Time and Date Formatting to English (US), because I use an English Tunderbird on a Dutch Win10 Pro. It made no difference.

My INFO:
I use the newest beta. Updating did not help. I use a brand new PC mith Win10 Pro.
All three empty boxes are POP3. Two of them are G-mail. (Irrelevant: email arrives, until Repair removes them.)
I have 8 mail accounts, and about 15 mailboxes created.
There is a combined mailbox (inbox) for several accounts. (but not all)

CONCLUSION?

– The fault is not the PC, and not Thunderbird itself. It’s in the Profile folder.

– It could be the Béta-version..
The complaints about missing emails and Repair are already old, but they might have done something, that made it worse.. And a new version does edit the Profile Folder. I foud out, because my Profile was not accepted by the newest regular Thunderbird version. Error message: The profile is created by a newer version. That was correct, because my Profile folder came from another PC, which had the newest Thunderbird-Beta installed. (a test version for the newest update.) I installed that, and it accepted my Profile folder. But did a develloper change the Repair-function?

– Could it be an Account-Identity issue, after installing Thunderbird on a new PC? I think not: you can simply copy a profile to a new computer. And some mailboxes do show older emails.

– Bitdefender? I will uninstall it, but don’t expect much from that.

– What puzzles me is, it dóes see new emails in the empty folders. And these remain visible after restart. They only vanish after Repair. (all my non-repaired mailboxes are working fine.) So the whole system works, except it doesn’t show emails from repaired Mailboxes, previous to the time and date of reparation.

So ‘Repair’ is causing all this.
So what does Repair exactly change in the Profile-folder??
It must be móre than just creating a new MSF-file.
Look at my experiment nr. 10. I copied a working mailbox-file elswere, renamed it, and put it back in the same location. Thunderbird created a MSF file for it, and displays the new mailbox in the Thunderbird mailbox-list. But the (previously well working) mailbox does not show any emails.
So what more than a good working Mbox and MFS-file, does Thunderbird need to display emails?

After 6 hours of puzzling work, it's about time to post on the forum. :-)

I wrote a detailed report, hoping it could help, to solve the problem for anyone..
I like to support the devellopers, and certainly the forum members, who try to solve the problem every time. If they want to, they can create a checklist out of this report, as a standard answer to complaints.. All answers I have seen, are in the above.
I am just a Thunderbird-user, but am very fond of it. It’s the first time, I get so deep into it.
I just found out, I’d better report to Bugzilla, but first post it here. Any suggestions?

Greeting from the Netherlands, Serge..
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DanRaisch
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Re: Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailb

Post by DanRaisch »

Moving to Thunderbird Support as no specific, existing bug has been identified here.
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tanstaafl
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Re: Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailb

Post by tanstaafl »

If you are using a IMAP account the mbox file is irrelevant if you are working online. In that case Thunderbird displays the contents of the remote folder, not the mbox file.

If you are using a POP account "repairing" a folder really just rebuilds the cache of the folder listing. It doesn't repair the mbox file, which has the messages. If the mbox file is corrupt it can hide many or all of the messages. You might try exporting all of the messages in the troublesome inbox folder as .eml files using the ImportExportTools NG add-on, exit Thunderbird, delete the "inbox." and "inbox.msf" file for that accounts inbox folder, start Thunderbird (it will create a replacement inbox folder) , and then import the *.eml files into it.

You will lose some messages that way because the folder was corrupt and they didn't get exported, but you should have a healthy folder afterwards. It sounds like you have corrupt inbox folders. I don't see what good filing a bug report would do.

You might consider switching to maildir rather than using mbox files (though its a bit of work as you'd need to save your accounts mail in "Local Folders", change the default storage type to maildir, delete the account, add it again, and then move the saved mail back to it). maildir stores each message separately, so its not possible to have a corrupt folder. You also avoid the need to compact folders.

IMHO IMAP accounts are far less troublesome than POP accounts.
GeorgeNL
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Re: Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailb

Post by GeorgeNL »

If Repairing a mailbox instantly results in vanished emails, there obviously is a bug. (and a serious one)
The damage itself - loosing emails - is obviously not a bug.

- The Mbox-files are not corrupt, as my experiments 9. and 10. show.
- The Mbox-files are even working fine, as experiment 8. showed:
I can send myself email, and after receiving it, Thunderbird does display that email (but not any of the older ones).
And when I open that Mbox-file in Notepad, that newly received email is added at the bottom.
But when I 'Repair' again, that one email is vanished too..

So it looks like, Thunderbird just doesn't display emails anymore, that have a date/time prior to the Repair-action..

So, to understand what Repair exactly damages, my question was:
What else than good working Mbox and MSF files, does Thunderbird need to display emails?
Or: Is there a filter to nót display emails, older than a certain date?
Or: What exacly does Repair alter? (settings, files, enlistings)

I will do more experiments with Tanstaafi's suggestions..

Thanking both of you for reading so much, especially Tanstaafi, who has been around a long long time here.
(I do a lot of support myself too, including software. My long report was ment to help to solve the issue for everyone too.)
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tanstaafl
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Re: Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailb

Post by tanstaafl »

I suggest you install the latest release version in a different directory to try to identify which problems are due to the beta and which might be due to your profile. You will probably get a error message about your profile is not compatible with this version because you installed it in a different directory. Go to help -> more troubleshooting information, click on about:profiles, find your old profile and press the associated "set as default profile" button.

You probably need to also add --allow-downgrade to your shortcut. For example the command line I use is
"C:\Program Files\Thunderbird 91\thunderbird.exe" --allow-downgrade

Between those two steps I'm able to use the same profile with multiple versions.

Item 9 doesn't prove the mbox file was fine. If anything it seems to indicate that you made a mistake in editing its contents. You might find the Edit mbox file - Advanced section of http://kb.mozillazine.org/Recover_messa ... upt_folder useful.

Item 10 is ambiguous, though I'd be tempted to blame the beta software. Depending upon what corrupts a mbox file the symptoms can be intermittent for example.

"What else than good working Mbox and MSF files, does Thunderbird need to display emails?"

It needs to be able to find and open them. So they can't be in a position that exceeds windows limit of about 270 characters for a path or have some attribute/permission that prevents them being opened. If the location is in the profile it needs to be in an account specific directory under ..\Mail (for a POP account). Otherwise files can be misinterpreted. And you need to avoid something that has bad side effects such as an add-on that isn't fully compatible. Corrupted global search indexs can have bad side effects too though usually they only effect global search.
GeorgeNL
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Re: Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailb

Post by GeorgeNL »

tanstaafl wrote:I suggest you install the latest release version in a different directory to try to identify which problems are due to the beta and which might be due to your profile. You will probably get a error message about your profile is not compatible with this version because you installed it in a different directory. Go to help -> more troubleshooting information, click on about:profiles, find your old profile and press the associated "set as default profile" button.

You probably need to also add --allow-downgrade to your shortcut. For example the command line I use is
"C:\Program Files\Thunderbird 91\thunderbird.exe" --allow-downgrade

Between those two steps I'm able to use the same profile with multiple versions.
I installed the latest regular Thunderbird (91.3.1, 64bit, in a different location ), keeping my older (problematic) beta-version (95.0B3, 64 bit).

(Thank you véry much for your exellent description!!
Yes, I had to edit 'about:profile' like you said, or else, it would not accept the old profile.
(Of course, first I had to add an emailaddress, to create a new probile, and get the new Thunnderbird to work. Then I was able to access the menu-bar.)
Yes, I had to edit the new Thunderbird-shortcut > Properties > and add to the exe: a space and --allow-downgrade. Or else, it did not accept the old profile.)

RESULT:

1. My old Inbox (Mbox file) is working in the regular Thunderbird!
I copied my old Inbox to the new Profile (Main > Local folders), replacing the existing inbox. (and deleted the MSF-file)
I started the new regular Thunderbird, in the new profile, and all emails in the Inbox were shown.
(To check, I opened the Inbox-file in Notepad again, and checked the first and the last email. Thunderbird displayed all!)

2. 'Repair folder' does work in the new regular Thunderbird.
It took only a split second to Repair the copied Inbox. And after that, it saw all 900 emails again.

3. My problematic old Profile: The new regular Thunderbird had the same problem, as the beta-version:
I created a new Profile in the regular Thunderbird, pointing at my old profile-folder. Thunderbird saw the whole structure, but did not display the contents of the same four mailboxes.

4. 'Repair folder' in the new Thunderbird, did not work on my old Profile-folder. I saw nothing happening, while repairing the Inbox, and the list of emails was empty.

(To check, I copied the working Inbox (with 900 emails) in the new Profile of the new Tunderbird back to the old problematic Profile-folder (and deleted the MSF-file) : Same problem: Both the regular version and the beta version did not show any emails in the Inbox and the other three problematic mailboxes.
And what's more: I left the existing Inbox-file in the Profile folder, temporarily renaming it to Inboxold. Both Thunderbird-versions showed that mailbox 'Inboxold' in the left pane, but the email list of it kept blank.)

CONCLUSION?
1. The Mbox-file 'Inbox' is OK. (the other three probably too) It works in a different profle.
2. The Repair-function of the inbox works in the regular Thunderbird, at least with that Inbox in a new profile.

So NEW EXPERIMENT:
Create a new Profile with the Betaversion, having it's profile-folder in the same folder as the other profiles..
I copied the old Inbox to that.. It did NOT work! Same problem.

But please, wait.. I'll try something new..

(excusing my late reaction.. it's complicated)
GeorgeNL
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Re: Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailb

Post by GeorgeNL »

tanstaafl wrote: "What else than good working Mbox and MSF files, does Thunderbird need to display emails?"

It needs to be able to find and open them. So they can't be in a position that exceeds windows limit of about 270 characters for a path or have some attribute/permission that prevents them being opened. If the location is in the profile it needs to be in an account specific directory under ..\Mail (for a POP account). Otherwise files can be misinterpreted. And you need to avoid something that has bad side effects such as an add-on that isn't fully compatible. Corrupted global search indexs can have bad side effects too though usually they only effect global search.
EMAIL RECOVERED!!! :mrgreen: =D> :D
(But the problem is not solved yet..)

SOLUTION:
1. In Explorer, move the Profile-folder to a different locaton, like the C-drive or D-drive (root).
2. Start the Profile Manager: Winkey+R, and type: thunderbird -P
3. Button: Create Profile. Give the new profile any name, click 'Choose folder' and browse to the profile folder.
4. Start Thunderbird on that profile. (Here, the problem was solved. I saw all emails.
5. Close thunderbird.
6. Move the Profile-folder back to the original location.
7. Start Profile Manager, and start on the original profile.
8. If you see the email now, close Thunderbird, start Profile Manager, and delete the temporary new profile.

Thanks Tanstaaf1 ! Your remark about the maximum Windows character length, made me move around the Profile folder to several locations: default location, C-drive, D-drive, and subfolders on the D-drive. And every time I created a new profile, pointing at that folder. Thunderbird worked fine, every time.
So at last, I moved the Profile-folder to the original location, and it worked too!
Then I once again started the original Profile - expecting it to fail - but it simply worked too!

What did NOT work: Just creating a new Profile, and point it at te same Profile-folder. Then bóth profiles gave the same problem wit empty mailboxes. The Profile-folder múst be moved to a different location, before making the temporary new profile.

I tried several times now: First I demolish a mailbox by 'Repair', and then solve it with this trick.

But is it a bug? I'll do a few more tests.. Please wait.. (Have a coffee. Or better: a hollyday on the Bahama's.. :-) But don't go to Heaven yet.. :-) )
GeorgeNL
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Re: Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailb

Post by GeorgeNL »

SOLVED! :D :) :-({|=
The problem of empty mailboxes after 'Repair'.

The Cause: a cross-character (#) in a folder name, in the folder-path to the Profile folder.
Thunderbird itself can handle a "#". But the Repair-function cannot.

With other special characters in the folder-path, there was no problem at all: $, %, &, ), (, @, and ^.
I tried paths with these. I could repair, and all emails remained visible.

Can you call it a Bug? I think so. If Thunderbird does allow a path wit a #, it also should work properly.

The problem was NOT the Beta-version.
I used Thunderbird 91.3.0 (the newest regular) and the newer Thunderbird beta 95.3.1. (both versions installed, like tanstaaf1 described above.) Both versions behaved exactly the same at Repair:

If the Profile folder's path contains a parent folder with a # in it's name, the use of "Repair folder" on any POP3 mailbox, will result in an empty email list. Thunderbird will still show the mailbox in the left pane, but the field with all the emails on the right will be empty.

What does NOT help:
- Restarting Thunderbird.
- Starting a another version of Thunderbird (pointing at the same Profile).
- Creating a new Profile, pointing at the same Profile folder.
- Moving the Profile folder to another place, and creating a new Profile for that, as long as the Profile folder has a # in its path somewhere.
- Deleting the MSF-file of the mailbox in: Profile folder > Main > Local folders. Thunderbird will create a new one at restart, but the mailbox wil not show emails.
In all cases I tried, you can start both versions of Thunderbird, but a 'repaired' POP3-mailbox will stay empty in Thunderbird.

The only Solution in all cases I tried:
Move the Profiles folder to an area without a # in the path. Create a profile for that, and run that at least ónce! (in any installed Thunderbird version) After that, you can move the Profile folder back to the original location. Start with your normal Profile, and the repaired mailbox will show its contents.

So, how many other people did I help?
Lets say, three to five people in the world, dó have a # in their Profile folder path. If lets say 10% of them reaches this forum, that means that 0,5 Human will reach this forum for this, AKA known as: Nobody at all!
But I must have caused an extra grey hair on Tansaaf1's head.. So much for my impact in this world. Not exactly 'saving millions'..

Tansaaf1 Thanks!! Greeting from the netherlands, Serge..
GeorgeNL
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Re: Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailb

Post by GeorgeNL »

Schould it go to Bugzilla?
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tanstaafl
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Re: Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailb

Post by tanstaafl »

Yes.

A '#' is not a reserved character for a NTFS file/directory name. The repair folder feature should be consistent with what folders/paths Thunderbird supports. I agree very few people will ever run into this bug but somebody looking into why it occurs might discover other problems/bad assumptions. For that reason its worth reporting, even though they're likely to mark it WONTFIX.

If you file the bug report please post a link to it. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/home

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... ing-a-file
GeorgeNL
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Re: Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailb

Post by GeorgeNL »

tanstaafl wrote:A '#' is not a reserved character for a NTFS file/directory name. The repair folder feature should be consistent with what folders/paths Thunderbird supports.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... ing-a-file
But Windows accepts a # in a directory name, or a file file name on NTFS.
I can create create folders and files with these characters in the name: # @ # $ % & ) ( } { ] [ . , ;
I cannot create them with these: ! ^ * | \ / > < ? :

And in the article of the link you sent, under 'Naming Conventions', I see only these exceptions:
< (less than) - > (greater than) - : (colon) - " (double quote) - / (forward slash) - \ (backslash) - | (vertical bar or pipe) - ? (question mark) - * (asterisk)
Did I miss something?

My guess is, they just overlooked the problem. They will not have tested with a # in the path. And all other special characters (except the forbidden ones) in the path to the Profile are working. (I tested)
tanstaafl wrote:I agree very few people will ever run into this bug but somebody looking into why it occurs might discover other problems/bad assumptions. For that reason its worth reporting, even though they're likely to mark it WONTFIX.
Yes! :D Thank you!
Also I understand : Many may report this thread as WONTFIX, because the # is not their problem.
But there is a lot of info here, and that may prevent too many posts about Repair on this forum.

And that means: a better life for tansaaf1 here.. =D> =D> =D> (I hope so)
(It's probably not easy to reply to the same problems over-and-over again, not to mention people that don't supply enough information, don't read well, don't follow your instructions properly, don't report the results, etc etc..)

I was very glad with all your accurate, detailed, and practical answers. It inspired me to do more tests. And I didn't want to become an extra 'burdon' here, for people who supply good answers on forums like this..

Also I think (after done a lot of support myself): People who are asking for help, should do, whatever they can do themselves. (including writing good reports). Unfortunately, many tend to just drop their problem on your plate, and just wait, expecting you to solve everything.
(Luckily we are beyond Windows98 now, where I spent thousends of hours, solving the problems.. :shock: [-X [-o< [-( )
tanstaafl wrote:If you file the bug report please post a link to it. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/home
I will do it in a minute..
GeorgeNL
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Re: Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailb

Post by GeorgeNL »

I reported the bug and the solution (avoiding a # in the folder path) at Bugzilla:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1741722
You don't have to login there, to see it.
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tanstaafl
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Re: Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailb

Post by tanstaafl »

"reserved character" means its not allowed in a name. That's why ! ^ * | \ / > < ? : are reserved , if they're used in a name Windows can safely assume they're a operator (such as a wild card or a pipe) rather than part of the actual name.
GeorgeNL
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Re: Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailb

Post by GeorgeNL »

tanstaafl wrote:"reserved character" means its not allowed in a name. That's why ! ^ * | \ / > < ? : are reserved
I am glad, you could correct me in something. :D

Mistakes can be very easily made here.. And English is not my native language (I am Dutch) I was already a bit surprised, I could write all this 'stuff' in English. Dutch is the closest language to English, but it still is hard.

'Reserved' (Dutch: Gereserveerd) mostly has a positive meaning (entrance, allowed), but for outsiders it of course is negative (they are blocked) Now see this:

"A '#' is not a reserved character for a NTFS file/directory name." (as you wrote) (as an adjective)
"A '#' is not a character reserved for a NTFS file/directory name." (as I red it.) (as a verb) :mrgreen:

Thanks again! :D
GeorgeNL
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Re: Lost Emails after Repair – Thunderbird shows empty mailb

Post by GeorgeNL »

I just donated €20 to Thunderbird. Used it for years.. Hardly any problem..

Is this forum funded? Does it need funding?
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