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Yahoo and Hotmail emails being returned "undeliverable"

User Help for Mozilla Thunderbird
petergo
 
Posts: 628
Joined: January 21st, 2005, 7:34 am

Post Posted September 25th, 2008, 11:55 am

hi there

when I send emails to folks that have a yahoo.com or an hotmail.com email address , my emails sent are being returned, firstly as a Mailer-Daemon - message delayed, then 'undeliverable' a little while later on

I send those emails then using my gmail.com website, and they go through perfectly

I consulted with my ISP, and they told me they believe the problem is my outgoing email may have a 'spam', and is therefore being rejected by yahoo and hotmail

How can I check to see if that is correct, and what can I do about it?

kindest thanks
peter

C@rb0n
 
Posts: 1411
Joined: February 19th, 2005, 11:22 am

Post Posted September 25th, 2008, 12:22 pm

Most "undeliverable" replies have message content that explains why the message was undeliverable. Read the whole message body to see what reason it gives.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted September 25th, 2008, 12:35 pm

Your spam score is based mainly on the content of your message though who you sent it from also counts. So in one sense what your ISP is saying is that many other email providers don't trust them, since sending using their SMTP server increases the chance that your message is treated as spam :)

Your error message sounds like a problem sending the message, not it being rejected due to the recipient due to its content. What is the full text of the error message?

There is a anti-spam technique called grey listing in which the recipient's mail server temporarily rejects a message. If the sender is legitimate the SMTP server will automatically send it again and the mail is accepted. Perhaps your ISPs SMTP server isn't resending it. You did mention something about message delayed.

petergo
 
Posts: 628
Joined: January 21st, 2005, 7:34 am

Post Posted September 25th, 2008, 1:37 pm

thanks for your response
here is a copy of the message received, that the email sent has been delayed, later I will get another message that delivery failed
This happens to all emails I send to yahoo.com or hotmail.com addresses
thanks, cheers
peter

This is a warning message only.
Your message remains in the server queue,
the server will try to send it again.
You should not try to resend your message now.


Message delivery to 'xxxxx29@hotmail.com' delayed
SMTP module(domain [201.224.80.133]) reports:
connection with 201.224.80.133 is broken




Reporting-MTA: dns; frontend2.cwpanama.net

Original-Recipient: rfc822;<xxxxxx29@hotmail.com>
Final-Recipient: rfc822;<xxxxx29@hotmail.com>
Action: delayed
Status: 4.0.0

petergo
 
Posts: 628
Joined: January 21st, 2005, 7:34 am

Post Posted September 25th, 2008, 1:40 pm

the failed to deliver just arrived

Failed to deliver to 'xxxxx29@hotmail.com'
SMTP module(domain [201.224.80.133]) reports:
connection with 201.224.80.133 is broken




Reporting-MTA: dns; frontend2.cwpanama.net

Original-Recipient: rfc822;<xxxxx29@hotmail.com>
Final-Recipient: rfc822;<xxxxxxxx29@hotmail.com>
Action: failed
Status: 4.0.0



Received: from [201.226.62.23] (account peterxxxx@cwpanama.net HELO [127.0.0.1])
by frontend2.cwpanama.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10)
with ESMTP id 228667079 for xxxxx29@hotmail.com; Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:56:01 -0500
Message-ID: <48DBAAE3.1000608@cwpanama.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:14:43 -0500
From: pg <peterxxxxxx@cwpanama.net>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: xxxxxxxxxx <xxxxx29@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Food donation
References: <BAY134-W33FD43007F3736A33733C0DF440@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <BAY134-W33FD43007F3736A33733C0DF440@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------040602060608000506090408"
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080925-0, 09/25/2008), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean

C@rb0n
 
Posts: 1411
Joined: February 19th, 2005, 11:22 am

Post Posted September 25th, 2008, 2:41 pm

Some questions:
1. Have you ever successfully sent email from this ISP
2. Have you ever successfully sent email with your current Thunderbird configuration

Try the following:
1. Send a test message to your cwpanama.net account from your cwpanama.net
2. Send a test message to you gmail account, from your cwpanama.net

What are your answers to the questions and your results from the two tests? Since the messages appear to be getting to your ISP's server from you, I suspect the problem may be with your ISP. First, let's see what you get.

petergo
 
Posts: 628
Joined: January 21st, 2005, 7:34 am

Post Posted September 26th, 2008, 3:23 am

hi
I have had the same ISP for six years or so.
Until a few months ago, I never had problems sending emails to persons that used either yahoo.com or hotmail.com email addresses.
I did the two tests you suggested, and the emails went and were received with no problems.
I must point out, occassionally, an email I send to yahoo email address does go through with no problem.
But it would be fair to say 98% of those I send come back, and then I have to go to my gmail account, and send the email from there, which is a hassle as I like TB, and store my emails there in folders.
Any further suggestions appreciated.

I also removed an anti virus program I installed about six months ago called Avira, but it makes no difference, three tests I sent to friends, all cam back, firstly as delayed, then shortly after that as undeliverable

kindest thanks, cheers
peter

C@rb0n
 
Posts: 1411
Joined: February 19th, 2005, 11:22 am

Post Posted September 26th, 2008, 10:32 am

From the information you've provided, it looks to me like your ISP is exacerbating a common Yahoo problem:

Yahoo's mail service, from my experience, is slow and not always reliable -- especially if there are attachments. I can send a simple test email from one of my non-Yahoo accounts and not receive it in my Yahoo account for an hour or more. If somebody sends me email from Yahoo, and that email has an attachment, there is a high probability I will never receive the email. In the case of the delayed email, it looks like your ISP is a little too aggressive (does not retry enough and/or does not wait long enough) when encountering pokey email services like Yahoo.

POSSIBLE SOLUTION:
Use your Gmail account with Thunderbird, by following the instructions here: http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answ ... swer=38343

Note: If you do use Gmail as outlined above, and you still want messages you receive with Thunderbird to be accessible via the web, be sure to enable "Leave messages on server" under the account settings; and if you do enable that, I would recommend also enabling the associated "Until I delete them," so you don't have to manage your inboxes twice.

Additionally, the Google Contacts extension can be used to make your Gmail contacts available in Thunderbird. Available here: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/7307 or a more up-to-date version on the developer's website here: http://hogi.a.orn.jp/en/downloadcgi.rhtml?gmcont

petergo
 
Posts: 628
Joined: January 21st, 2005, 7:34 am

Post Posted September 26th, 2008, 11:46 am

Hi again
thank you for your suggestion.
I think that maybe I may have not been clear in my problem.
I can use my gmail account on the web with no problems, even sending emails to yahoo.com and hotmail.com addresses.
What my problem is that when I use TB, the emails I send to a hotmail or yahoo email address of friends, are coming back, delayed then undeliverable.

I want to use TB, as my email program, not the gmail website

If I followed you, you are suggesting I use Gmail as my email reader and program

are we on the same page ?

thanks so much for your patience and help
cheers
peter

C@rb0n
 
Posts: 1411
Joined: February 19th, 2005, 11:22 am

Post Posted September 26th, 2008, 11:59 am

No. You can setup Thunderbird to work as your email reader for Gmail. That way, you can still use Thunderbird with a service you know works: Gmail. Read my "POSSIBLE SOLUTION" section for details.

petergo
 
Posts: 628
Joined: January 21st, 2005, 7:34 am

Post Posted September 26th, 2008, 1:01 pm

sorry, you'll probably hate me, but it seems the solution you have recommended, is for sending and or receiving emails of mine that have a gmail.com address.

I want to keep using my ISP email address, and besides that's the email address that everyone has for me and that I use for subscribing to , eg., yahoo groups

Or, are you saying if do the configs suggested, I can send from TB, and my outgoing emails will work, and that all emails sent to me at my ISP's email adress will still come to me?

thanks again, and sorry to be such a pest
peter

C@rb0n
 
Posts: 1411
Joined: February 19th, 2005, 11:22 am

Post Posted September 26th, 2008, 1:45 pm

You can have multiple accounts with Thunderbird. Keep your ISP email account and add Gmail. You will still receive email to your ISP's account and you can use either account to send emails.

When you go to setup the account, it will ask you if you want to store the emails to the same "Local Folders" or keep your Gmail messages separate. It might be easier for you to keep them separate. Sent messages, however, will all go to the same "Sent" folder, but you can change that under the "Copies & Folders" preferences for the account, if you've created an alternate folder for it.

Your only other alternative would be to press your ISP into fixing their SMTP server's timing issues for outgoing mail. Your probability of success with this approach is likely slim to nil -- unless you know someone senior on the inside.

petergo
 
Posts: 628
Joined: January 21st, 2005, 7:34 am

Post Posted September 27th, 2008, 7:01 am

hi there
I believe your advice has worked, so far <smiles>
I have sent two emails to two friends that have a Yahoo email address, and they were delivered

May I kindly ask if it is possible to import the contacts I have in my Gmail.com web reader into TB?

agaian, kindest thanks
cheers
peter

C@rb0n
 
Posts: 1411
Joined: February 19th, 2005, 11:22 am

Post Posted September 27th, 2008, 10:46 am

The Google Contacts extension can be used to make your Gmail contacts available in Thunderbird. Get it here: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/7307 or a more up-to-date version on the developer's website here: http://hogi.a.orn.jp/en/downloadcgi.rhtml?gmcont

Once the extension is installed and you've restarted Thunderbird, you will see your Gmail address book (in the list of address books) when you open Thunderbird address book. They will also be searched when you type an address while composing in Thunderbird, just like your local address book. And finally, you can move entries between address books, if you so choose.

petergo
 
Posts: 628
Joined: January 21st, 2005, 7:34 am

Post Posted September 27th, 2008, 12:02 pm

oh boy, sorry - failed to deliver again
this is the message rec eived

Failed to deliver to 'ludxxxxxxxxx@hotmail.com'
SMTP module(domain [201.224.80.133]) reports:
connection with 201.224.80.133 is broken


Reporting-MTA: dns; frontend3.cwpanama.net

Original-Recipient: rfc822;<ludxxxxxxxx@hotmail.com>
Final-Recipient: rfc822;<ludxxxxxx@hotmail.com>
Action: failed
Status: 4.0.0

what now please?
thanks, cheers
peter

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