Composer

[tom_f]

The only use I have for SeaMonkey is Composer. I wish you would dedicate your development firepower exclusively to Composer and make it as powerful as the payware WYSIWYGs. I just can't afford FrontPage or Dreamweaver. Even if no further development were undertaken, there is much to do just improving the current implementation. (For instance, adding thumbs linked to fullsize jpgs is a downright punishing exercise with far too many dropdowns.) But don't stop at cleaning up the current version ... extend Composer to become a real IDE. Give me a library of templates, php scripts to manipulate MySQL databases, navigation goodies, paypal widgets, integrated palettes ... and an ad hoc user group.

I hate to be rude, but I really don't see how your browser is anything but a sink for talented labor. Whereas investing your resources in Composer would definitely make the world a better place.

[steviex]

Moving to SeaMonkey Features.....

SeaMonkey is a complete suite containing a Browser, Email Client, Chat Client and HTML Composer.

Many users use all. or some of the components, and value it as a full suite, taking up less memory and disc space than separate programs. Development is being made, and will continue to be made on all Fronts.

By the way... Why did you post your comments with SeaMonkey, rather than using another, separate Browser (Was it the convenience of just switching windows from Composer to Browser, rather than launching a new program ?? )

[rsx11m]

The main reason why I prefer using SeaMonkey rather than a bunch of stand-alone applications is just because everything but the kitchen sink comes with it, and I hope (and definitely think) that it will stay this way. If you are interested in a stand-alone composer application, look into KompoZer, which is based on Mozilla's composer code along with additional features.

[BenoitRen]

And if you really want everything, you can have the kitchen sink, too.

[rsx11m]

[tom_f]

<snip> taking up less memory and disc space than separate programs. )

This is a rather weak reason. Memory and disk space are negligibly cheap. 4 gb PC6400 DDR2 800mhz for $36, 1.5 tb hard drive for $150 from online retailers

Development is being made, and will continue to be made on all Fronts)

Show me the Composer progress. For all the releases of SeaMonkey I've downloaded, I don't recall any What's New mentions of Composer improvements.

By the way... Why did you post your comments with SeaMonkey, rather than using another, separate Browser (Was it the convenience of just switching windows from Composer to Browser, rather than launching a new program ?? )

Don't reach. Navigating to the forums apparently launched the SeaMonkey browser ... it wasn't a matter of choice. My goal was to somehow wend my way through registration and then to a forum, not make some kind of quasi-religious statement. I have since bookmarked the forums and now access them via IE. Big deal. If you are worried about the cost in mouse clicks and keystrokes your users endure, pay attention to the excessive overhead required by Composer. Try populating a web page with a hundred thumbnail jpg's linked individually to fullsize jpg's. Tell me why I have to drop down to pick Images. User-hostile overhead.

But I repeat. Your browser is a monument to someone's ego. The world has excellent, free browsers coming out of its ears. It doesn't NEED SeaMonkey. But it DOES NEED excellent WYSIWYG webpage editors (and IDEs). I say do the world a favor and reprioritize your projects. Focus on Composer. "Suite" is just a word, nothing more than that. But a first-class Composer, as good or exceeding FrontPage, would make all the difference in the world.


As long as I have your attention, I may as well ask a question. About the name "SeaMonkey" ... when this suite was named, were all the good names taken already?

[tom_f]

The main reason why I prefer using SeaMonkey rather than a bunch of stand-alone applications is just because everything but the kitchen sink comes with it, and I hope (and definitely think) that it will stay this way. If you are interested in a stand-alone composer application, look into KompoZer, which is based on Mozilla's composer code along with additional features.

Your 'main reason' makes no sense to me.

But I thank you for the link and will evaluate Kompozer.

[rsx11m]

You are welcome. If you don't want a suite, then just use several stand-alone applications. Thus, I'm having a bit of a problem with your line of argumentation as well.

[steviex]

Please remember that WE are NOT the Developers of SeaMonkey.
We are a User to User Support Forum. http://www.mozillazine.org/about/

SeaMonkey is a COMMUNITY SUPPORTED Project.. It is NOT a COMMERCIAL Product.

The SeaMonkey project is a community effort to develop the SeaMonkey all-in-one internet application suite (see below). Such a software suite was previously made popular by Netscape and Mozilla, and the SeaMonkey project continues to develop and deliver high-quality updates to this concept. Containing an Internet browser, email & newsgroup client, HTML editor, IRC chat and web development tools, SeaMonkey is sure to appeal to advanced users, web developers and corporate users.

powered by Mozilla Under the hood, SeaMonkey uses much of the same Mozilla source code which powers such successful siblings as Firefox, Thunderbird, Camino, Sunbird and Miro. Legal backing is provided by the Mozilla Foundation.

Also, please do not use red colour in your posts. It distracts from the content, and may be seen as shouting....

You know, you can join the project, and help develop the Composer aspect, as it is a Community effort. Most people are just doing this for just doing it.

[tom_f]

You are welcome. If you don't want a suite, then just use several stand-alone applications. Thus, I'm having a bit of a problem with your line of argumentation as well.

I'll try to be clearer. I couldn't care less whether Composer is standalone or has to be accessed by clicking an obscure icon at the bottom of the SeaMonkey screen (after which SeaMonkey is closed to get it out of the way). I don't care about that.

I care about the deficiencies of Composer, those that I've mentioned and those that are evident by comparison with the payware editors, and I want only to urge that development resources be concentrated on improving Composer rather than being squandered on yet another browser (email client, chat client, whatever).

It's not a question of standalone or suite. It's a question of how adequate is the tool. I say I would be grateful if it received much-needed improvement and urge that direction.

I use a wide variety of tools working as an unpaid volunteer on some non-profit organizations' websites. I use a WYSIWYG editor to get a webpage laid out and then switch to Arachnophilia and do my fine-tuning in HTML. I would still follow that regimen even if Composer were enhanced. I'd just get to the fine-tuning phase HOURS earlier per page.

[tom_f]

Please remember that WE are NOT the Developers of SeaMonkey.
We are a User to User Support Forum. http://www.mozillazine.org/about/

I hope that some developer will take notice of this thread.

SeaMonkey is a COMMUNITY SUPPORTED Project.. It is NOT a COMMERCIAL Product.

I am aware of that. I'd like the COMMUNITY to support my needs, which revolve around Composer, not SeaMonkey.

<snip>

Also, please do not use red colour in your posts. It distracts from the content, and may be seen as shouting....

I am not responsible for misinterpretations of my calm and well-reasoned remarks. Surely the creators of this forum didn't supply a palette for fonts for the express purpose of having them never used. Actually, it's quite useful for distinguishing replies from original statements.

You know, you can join the project, and help develop the Composer aspect, as it is a Community effort. Most people are just doing this for just doing it.

If I were still a code slinger in real life I might get into it. But I'm not; I'm a user now.

[James]

But I repeat. Your browser is a monument to someone's ego. The world has excellent, free browsers coming out of its ears. It doesn't NEED SeaMonkey. But it DOES NEED excellent WYSIWYG webpage editors (and IDEs). I say do the world a favor and reprioritize your projects. Focus on Composer. "Suite" is just a word, nothing more than that. But a first-class Composer, as good or exceeding FrontPage, would make all the difference in the world.

As long as I have your attention, I may as well ask a question. About the name "SeaMonkey" ... when this suite was named, were all the good names taken already?

As said, mozillaZine is not Mozilla, nor is the forum part of the SeaMonkey community, though there are one or two regulars here that work on SeaMonkey in their ways. This forum section used to be for the old Mozilla Suite such as Mozilla 1.7.13 (which discontinued at same time as Firefox 1.0.8) and when the community continued on with the suite as you know as SeaMonkey, the forum admin decided to continue to help provide a place for user support.

Frontpage was crap and even Microsoft has stop support of it back in Dec 2006.

SeaMonkey (with a lower case m) was the codename of the Mozilla Suite. https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey:Name_And_Version

[Euchre]

I think what you are really just looking for KompoZer, as the current Composer in SeaMonkey is actually a bit more of a minor convenience than meant to be a fully featured item. What seems is not understood is that both SeaMonkey and KompoZer are based on Gecko, the core technology of the Mozilla Foundation and Corporation. The mention of 'other free browsers' is a curious one, as there are only 4 major families of browser today - Gecko, Webkit, Presto, and Trident. Many of the average users are not aware which engine actually powers the browsers they try.

The choice of IE as your preferred browser is a curious one, in juxtaposition to the desire to use a Gecko based WYSIWYG. IE uses quite a few non-standards compliant behaviors which Composer - or even KompoZer - are not likely to deliver. You may be totally disappointed with the results you'd produce.

The point of SeaMonkey has always been to be a suite, which runs off of a single process by design. It also offers a single instance of the Gecko engine to be used for all tasks that would otherwise be accomplished via several applications. It also provides a single installation of plugins and extensions that would be duplicated in a multi-application approach. This is the theory of design behind the SeaMonkey suite, not to be just one thing alone. If all you want is a Gecko based browser, email client, or web design application you get Firefox, Thunderbird, or KompoZer respectively. As a side note, consider that many that want a suite are looking for a single, simple solution - so the idea of buying extra RAM and installing a larger hard drive themselves after having already bought a complete (single solution) computer doesn't follow the concept of SeaMonkey's audience.

One last note, the red text color is possible because the forum software is not modified to prevent the use of other colors. The forum software is phpBB, not written by those that operate this site as a whole. The rule to not use a default feature of the software is a respectful request of the membership in keeping with the intent of the site. It is within the rights of this site's administration to ask you to use phpBB in a way seen fit to this implementation. If you wish to debate this idea, that can be taken up in the MozillaZine Site Discussion forum - but meanwhile it would show respect to follow the rule in other parts of the forum. If you wish to debate phpBB's design choices or suggest that MozillaZine is misusing their software, you can bring that up on phpBB's own site.

I do hope you understand that KompoZer is most likely going to be the best we can offer as a solution to your desires, based on the idea that you are wanting a Gecko based editor.

[BenoitRen]

This is a rather weak reason. Memory and disk space are negligibly cheap.

Not everyone has a computer with a lot of memory and disk space. And just because they are cheap doesn't mean we should use more for no reason. It's called bloat.

Show me the Composer progress. For all the releases of SeaMonkey I've downloaded, I don't recall any What's New mentions of Composer improvements.

Indeed, apart from bug fixes there is no progress.

Your browser is a monument to someone's ego. The world has excellent, free browsers coming out of its ears. It doesn't NEED SeaMonkey.

SeaMonkey already existed before Firefox and Safari were born. Why didn't you make this argument back then? Why are you against choice?

The only other suite I know is Opera, and that's not open-source.

"Suite" is just a word, nothing more than that.

Nonsense. No other web browser apart from Opera is a suite that has components in one process.

But it DOES NEED excellent WYSIWYG webpage editors (and IDEs).

Patches welcome. Get to work.

About the name "SeaMonkey" ... when this suite was named, were all the good names taken already?

When it was still named "Mozilla", "seamonkey" was the code name of the project. So it's for historical reasons.

[penlamp]

This thread came up in my Google search. It answered many questions I had about SeaMonkey Composer. Thanks to all. I have more questions.

No one is making any money off of SeaMonkey. So I hope people answer honestly my questions.

How does Composer compare to other free WYSIWYG HTML editors? I have been using Frontpage 2003 for a long time, but I want to use something else now that it is no longer supported. Also because I want to help others create web pages.

So I need free WYSIWYG HTML editors for them. What do people recommend? Some HTML editors are listed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_HTML_editors

I see some highly-rated free programs at download.com such as HTML-Kit. What do people think of it?:
http://www.download.com/HTML-Kit/3000-2 ... 35302.html
http://www.htmlkit.com

Frontpage 2003 is way too complex for most peoples needs. Myself included. I wish there was a simple free WYSIWYG program like the old Frontpage Express. That great program was killed quickly by Microsoft. Probably because it was so simple that it was killing their business of selling Frontpage 2000 and 2003.