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HELP needed: VERY Small Font in SM 2.13.2 Bars, Etc.

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R.N. Folsom
 
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Post Posted November 19th, 2012, 12:29 am

I have just now replaced SeaMonkey 2.0.14 (which I had been using because it was the last version that could run NoSquint) with SM 2.13.2. But unless I can find a setting to increase the font sizes used in the Menu Bar, the Tool Bar, and the Tab labels (AND in their drop down menus), and in the Browsing History list, and throughout SeaMonkey Email, I will have to abandon SM 2.13.2. On my laptop's 15" UXGA screen (1600 x 1200 pixels), the Menu Bar, Tool Bar, and Tab labels literally require a magnifying glass for me to read --- and I'm nearsighted!

I have browsed around in SM 2.13.2 but could not find any font size settings that changed the Menu Bar, Tool Bar, and Tab Labels. If those settings exist, please let me know where they are. If necessary, I could change settings in my WinXPsp3 registry, if I knew where to look.

Apparently, SeaMonkey 2.13.2 is ignoring my WinXPsp3's Display Properties setting (Right click the desktop and select Properties > Settings > Advanced) of 144 DPI (150% of the ancient 96dpi). Other software doesn't have that problem.

Without the needed settings, I will have to go back to SM 2.0.14 (or some version later than that, if it includes the ability to have readable Menu Bar, Tool Bar, Tabs, and Email lists).

Fortunately, I made backup images of my partitions C: and D: before installing SeaMonkey 2.13.2, so I can go back to 2.0.14 fairly easily.

If I switched to Firefox and Thunderbird (which I don't want to do), would they have the same font size problem?

I would appreciate any comments, suggestions, or specific help.

Roger Folsom

therube

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Post Posted November 19th, 2012, 8:31 am

As a test, create a new Profile.
Does that have the same issue with the font sizes?

Screenshot?

What SeaMonkey theme are you using?
What Windows theme are you using?

> If I switched to Firefox

Plug in FF & tell us.
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R.N. Folsom
 
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Post Posted November 19th, 2012, 12:19 pm

therube wrote:As a test, create a new Profile.
Does that have the same issue with the font sizes?

Screenshot?

What SeaMonkey theme are you using?
What Windows theme are you using?

> If I switched to Firefox

Plug in FF & tell us.
TheRube:

Thanks very much for your response. I did notice --- with some amusement --- that at the bottom of your post, your own computing information includes "Gecko/20110420 SeaMonkey/2.0.14".

I should make clear that the issue is not the contents of the SM 2.13.2 browser or email messages, which are easily read if I use Ctrl++ to enlarge the window. (Doing that has no effect on the SM menus etc.; they remain pin-point tiny.)

I have a screen shot of part of my email window, which is currently located in Thornsoft's Clipmate, and also in IrfanView. But although I see the IMG options at the top of the area in which I am writing this (I did try using them), I don't know how to get the image into this post, and I don't know where to go to find out. The size difference between the normal size "blue band" title bar's font size, and the tiny menu bar and tool bar and tabs and email list font size, is dramatic. I'll be happy to post that screen shot in this thread, if someone tells me exactly how to do it.

Unfortunately, your questions make clear to me that moving to SM 2.13.2 would be a huge time sink (although I'm writing in it now, after using a magnifying glass to open SeaMonkey 2.13.2 and get to your post and login to be able to reply). I didn't realize that SeaMonkey had a theme, so I don't know where to look for it. In Display Properties, my WinXPsp3 theme is a slightly modified Windows Classic (to make my computer as much like Win2kSp4 as possible); I moved from the latter to the former as an upgrade, not a clean install. I don't remember how to create a new SM profile (the last time I did that was when I moved from SM 1.x to 2.x, years ago), which I assume would destroy my old one. I would expect that SM 2.13.2 used whatever profile there was in SM 2.0.14. And I don't know how to install FireFox and Thunderbird in a way that would not interfere with SeaMonkey (and/or vice versa).

I naively thought that moving from SM 2.0.14 to SM 2.13.2 would be as simple as moving from one SM 2.0.x to a later 2.0.x. But at least for me, that is definitely wrong. The jump from SM 2.0.14 to 2.13.2 would totally mess up my life for an unknown amount of time.

For me and my Dell Latitude C840 15" UXGA (1600 x 1200 pixels) screen, SM 2.13.2 is totally impractical. So I will restore my backup images and return to SM 2.0.14. Thanks very much for your attempt to help, but I know now that I don't have nearly enough spare time to devote to moving to SM 2.13.2 --- especially when I am fairly sure that the problem is bad programming in SM 2.13.2 (and perhaps all SM 2.x versions where x>0) that ignores the WinXPsp3 (and Win2k) Display Properties > Settings tab > Advanced button > General tab > DPI setting. [In my case, that setting is 150% normal size (144dpi), where the 150% is 150% of the now ancient screen "normal" DPI of 96.] SM 2.0.14 does not ignore that custom DPI setting, and neither did previous SM 2.0.x and SM 1.x versions.

Sincerely, Roger Folsom
Last edited by R.N. Folsom on November 19th, 2012, 12:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

smsmith
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Post Posted November 19th, 2012, 12:52 pm

I am by no means a SM expert as I have only used it sparingly over the years. But I DO know that Firefox used to have terrible DPI support, as you describe. Even though you would change the DPI settings and all other programs seemed to respect them, fonts in the chrome (the window area that does not contain the content), would be as if the DPI had not been changed. They did some work on that for Firefox, and it seemed like they had it licked. Maybe those changes weren't taken by the SM folks...

To post a screenshot on this forum, you need to upload it to another service such as imageshack and then post the link to the thumbnail (please, not the full size image because that often breaks the forum layout and makes it hard to use). The thumbnail link should then go to the full size image.

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Posting_a_scr ... _the_forum
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TPR75
 
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Post Posted November 19th, 2012, 1:07 pm

After updating to SM 2.14 I had similar problem like OP. I just browsed some page and then suddenly everything become smaller (text, bars). I thought it was because I messed something with Nvidia settings (after update fonts were "blurred"; solution: disable hardware acceleration in SM or disable some Nvidia settings).

I forgot about Ctrl+MouseScroll (or "plus" key on numpad). Now it works correct... ^_^

@R.N. Folsom
SM has option to remember settings of "shrinking/enlarging" for every page. You can try to disable it:
Full-page zooming is available in SeaMonkey 2.0 and later, site-specific zoom in 2.1 and later. These settings are in Edit -> Preferences -> Appearance -> Content. Site-specific zoom values can be examined and removed in Tools -> Data Manager -> Preferences.

View -> Zoom allows to directly select a specific zoom value from the menu, which is constant up to SeaMonkey 2.4; starting with 2.5, the toolkit.zoomManager.zoomValues preference determines the stepping for both menu and Ctrl +/- keys. The list of default zoom values has been extended from 2.4 to 2.5, but the old stepping will be retained with an existing profile unless the preference is reset in about:config.


Info from there: Zoom text of web pages
Last edited by TPR75 on November 19th, 2012, 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

therube

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Post Posted November 19th, 2012, 1:09 pm

I don't know how to get the image into this post

You have to host it somewhere, like http://tinypic.com/.

I didn't realize that SeaMonkey had a theme

View | Apply Theme

I don't remember how to create a new SM profile

Tools | Switch Profile...

...I assume would destroy my old one

It should not. And you have backed up, right.

And I don't know how to install FireFox

Download a ZIP build. Unzip, click firefox.exe, & do not accept the prompt to make it your default browser.
Last edited by therube on November 19th, 2012, 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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R.N. Folsom
 
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Post Posted November 19th, 2012, 1:13 pm

Moderator smsmith

Thanks for your instructions about posting a screen shot, and link to the details. My screen shot is safely tucked away in Thornsoft's Clipmate, and I have some familiarity with IrfanView (although it's been several years since I've used it), so I will adapt the link's instructions and see if I can post the screen shot.

But first I need to reinstall (simply by restoring my backup images) SM 2.0.14. And then I need to spend some time, possibly several days, to deal with other tasks.

Also, thanks for the information that "Firefox used to have terrible DPI support." That encourages me to think that my final paragraph likely does describe the source of the problem (although I'm an economist, not a programmer!).

Roger Folsom

Andy Boze

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Post Posted November 19th, 2012, 6:44 pm

I don't have a problem with SM respecting my Windows font properties settings, but I'm using Windows 7, which I believe uses a different method from XP. Here's something you can try. In your SM profile folder, you'll find a subfolder named Chrome. It may contain a file named userChrome.css. With SM closed, edit that file, or create the file if it doesn't exist, inserting the following.
Code: Select all
* {
    font-size: 15px;
}
*/

Depending on your preference, you may want to use a number higher or lower than 15. Start SM and see whether the font size is better for you.

BTW, if you create the file, you'll need one additional line at the very top.
Code: Select all
@namespace url("http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul");
But then again, I may be wrong.

therube

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Post Posted November 20th, 2012, 7:59 am

Works :-).

Image
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Andy Boze

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Post Posted November 20th, 2012, 9:23 am

Oops, I just noticed an error in the code I wrote. It shouldn't have the last line with the */. It should be just this.
Code: Select all
@namespace url("http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul");
* {
    font-size: 15px;
}

With or without the @namespace line depending on whether you are creating a new userChrome.css file or not.
But then again, I may be wrong.

R.N. Folsom
 
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Post Posted November 20th, 2012, 1:21 pm

therube:

Re your post of 19 Nov 2012 12:09 pm:
Thanks for your efforts to help. But please quit. Don't waste any more of your time. For example, I am not nearly intelligent enough to understand http://tinypic.com/ Capcha, and even if I had been able to post an image there, I wouldn't know what to do next. (I was trying to post a screen shot of part of my SM 2.0.14 Inbox, and then, after re-installing SM 2.13.2, I was going to post a screen shot of the same part of the same inbox portion, because the differences would be dramatic. But screen shots by me are now off the table.)

Also in your 19 Nov 2012 12:09 pm post, other instructions about how to do other things that I had asked about earlier are no longer relevant to me (but they may be relevant to others who are smarter than I am), given that I now am persuaded that SM 2.13.2's tiny system fonts (Menu bar, other bars and tabs, and email lists) is because SM 2.x (x>0) is ignoring WinXPsp3 settings, as described in the last paragraph of my 19 Nov 2012 11:19 am post here.

My guess is that your second post (20 Nov 2012 06:59 am) statement "Works :-)" followed by images is intended to show that Andy Boze's Chrome code enlarges SM 2.14 Menu Bar and Tool Bar --- even though the code you used ends with a */ which Andy Boze then omits in his "Oops" post.

I am going to try Andy Boze's code (both versions if necessary), and if that doesn't work (which likely will be the case, because I won't have enough intelligence to follow his instructions accurately), I definitely will quit, and return to where I am now, which is SM 2.0.14.

I am deeply ashamed of trying to get help on this issue. I have wasted an awful lot of other people's time, and of my own time. Given my minimal computing and website technology knowledge, I should have had the sense to stick with what worked for me: SM 2.0.14.

My apologies to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I don't expect to come back to it, although if by some miracle I manage to follow Andy Boze's directions and they work, I will return here and say so.

Otherwise, Goodbye to everyone.

Roger Folsom
Last edited by R.N. Folsom on November 20th, 2012, 2:39 pm, edited 5 times in total.

R.N. Folsom
 
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Post Posted November 20th, 2012, 1:48 pm

TPR75 wrote: . . .
Info from there: Zoom text of web pages
TPR75

Thanks for your attempt to help. But when I went to the Zoom text page, it is about Firefox, and changing the text size of web pages. That information is relevant to the demise of SeaMonkey's NoSquint extension, so I have saved your information, and the link to the Zoom text url.

But in this thread, my issue has been the size of text in SeaMonkey itself, such as the font size used in SeaMonkey's Menu Bar and elsewhere in SeaMonkey, including email lists.

Although I may find your information useful if by some miracle I can follow Andy Boze's instructions (including his correction) and am able to install SM 2.13.2, my apologies for wasting your time in this thread.

Roger Folsom

TPR75
 
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Post Posted November 20th, 2012, 2:19 pm

@R.N. Folsom
Your post with question about that problem helped to resolve mine (I forgot about Ctrl+0 to restore default size of fonts). I understand your problems with unusual DPI settings because I wasn't able to explain to "some polish developer" how important is "cooperation with different/bigger DPI" in our database software (some elder users can't read such small fonts with ease). I hope you'll manage successfully... :-)

R.N. Folsom
 
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Post Posted November 20th, 2012, 5:34 pm

Andy Boze wrote:Oops, I just noticed an error in the code I wrote. It shouldn't have the last line with the */. It should be just this.
Code: Select all
@namespace url("http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul");
* {
    font-size: 15px;
}

With or without the @namespace line depending on whether you are creating a new userChrome.css file or not.
Andy Boze:

Your code solved this thread's font size (readability) problem (although with some minor differences). I am now writing this in SM 2.13.2.

After installing SM 2.13.2, I followed your suggestion and edited the userChrome.css file. All I had to do was change the font size number from 9pt to 14pt. [I tried 12pt but it was unusable, because on my laptop's 15" high resolution UXGA screen (1600 x 1200 pixels), each pixel is very small and 12pt text apparently is written with each line only one pixel thick, making the text very light and difficult to read. But 13pt character lines apparently are two pixels thick and are much darker and much easier to read. I'm experimenting with 13pt and 14pt.]

Probably because my computer is using WinXPsp3 and not Windows 7, there were some differences:
1) My userChrome.css file did not include a "CODE: SELECT ALL" statement.
2) Your userChrome.css file's suggested text size is 15px where I assume that px means pixels. My userChrome.css file used pt, where I assume that means points. I didn't experiment with writing the font sizes in px. Maybe I should have done so?

3) My userChrome.css file included the following print size setting:
/*
The code below makes all default font sizes 9 pt:
*/
* {
font-size: 9pt !important
}
I simply changed the 9 to 15 (which was too big), then to 12 (much too light and too small), and then to 13 and now 14 (basically a tossup choice).

My next stop is to A SeaMonkey 2.x (x>0) Alternative To NoSquint? (http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2616785)
and your suggestion there to "try the PrefBar extension (http://prefbar.tuxfamily.org/), and add the Full page zoom checkbox to it (http://prefbar.tuxfamily.org/buttons.html#fullpagezoom)."

Thanks very much for the help.

Roger Folsom

Andy Boze

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Post Posted November 20th, 2012, 10:12 pm

R.N. Folsom wrote:1) My userChrome.css file did not include a "CODE: SELECT ALL" statement.

"CODE: SELECT ALL" is not part of the code. It's how this forum designates that what follows it is code.
R.N. Folsom wrote:2) Your userChrome.css file's suggested text size is 15px where I assume that px means pixels. My userChrome.css file used pt, where I assume that means points. I didn't experiment with writing the font sizes in px. Maybe I should have done so?

Either is fine. Typically px is used for screen display of fonts; pt is used for printed fonts.
R.N. Folsom wrote:3) My userChrome.css file included the following print size setting:
/*
The code below makes all default font sizes 9 pt:
*/
* {
font-size: 9pt !important
}
I simply changed the 9 to 15 (which was too big), then to 12 (much too light and too small), and then to 13 and now 14 (basically a tossup choice).

OK, I think that explains why you experienced the problem in the first place. That code is not part of the default SM configuration. In fact, the userChrome.css file doesn't exist by default. At some point in the past you must have created the file. If you close SM, then rename your userChrome.css file to something like userChrome.css.old, the next time you restart SM, it will return to its default settings. It's possible that that's why it didn't respect your Windows display settings.
But then again, I may be wrong.

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