Pale Moon has changed its GUID.

[malliz]

so I'm really not even sure who they think they are appealing to.

Certainly not the masses

[LoudNoise]

Well, I think originally the point was to make their version of Firefox faster. While the lack of accessibility and the reporting stuff is more or less smoke and mirrors, using a compiler specific to the os and a processor manufacturer does make things somewhat faster. Also, Mozilla has dropped the ball on 64 bit.

That said, they seem to feel that they have some sort of special privilege. The vast number of things split off from V29 support threads is one example. Matt's attempt to hijack extension threads is another. The ABP bug is yet another. Trippy and his ilk tried to drive folks to their favorite browser at the expense of actually helping, Matt decided that hijacking support threads was the way to make sure that PM got extension support. Matt's action was especially disappointing since he is a mod of a forum and should have at least some idea that off topic posting wouldn't allowed anywhere.

Hence, we are evil and ABP is discriminating against Pale moon. I can easily live with the first and suspect that the folks at ABP won't remember the second.

[patrickjdempsey]

I guess if the only goal is a faster Firefox, then not having any extensions run in it is a sure fire way to reach that goal.

[LoudNoise]

That might work but I suspect the resounding quiet from the extension community, predicted many moons ago, came as a surprise. In the ABP bug, Matt is pleading for a change to support their GUID even though he knows that once the new Jetpack is added the extension won't work with Palemood.

Evangelism, at best, is tough work and the rewards after you have found the faithful are limited to saving folks who are likely to stick around for only a week or two.

[patrickjdempsey]

Meanwhile, back on topic:
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5907

Please understand that this is a one-time issue. I will not change GUID again since Pale Moon has its own now (as opposed to previously).

This right here is a problem. And it's a problem I'm having a hard time understanding. Even *if* extensions authors were to add PM compatibility right now, today, keep that compatibility is *not* a "one-time issue". It is an ongoing issue every time something changes in Firefox and extension authors adapt and then have to test in PM to make sure it's still working correctly and add compatibility layers as needed. It's hard enough to keep up with changes in Firefox without having to test other browsers. This may be the *fault* of Firefox developers and development, but as that is where the beans are, support for other browsers is always what suffers. Again, and as always: see how that's panned out in SeaMonkey.

What it sounds like they really need to do is *hire* LemonJuice and *pay* him to develop an Addon Converter for PM.

[LoudNoise]

:-"

Meanwhile, back on topic:
.

Removed the post. You are correct .

[LoudNoise]

The new GUID would be a one time event anyway. It isn't as though this would be an on-going event. As trippy has pointed out, a number of his extensions still work simply because only the really involved ones that are ported to a number of different platforms need to be concerned with with the GUID. Since most of PM is still ESR 24, many extensions should work fine for the time being. If palemood aggressively maintains compatibility with v24 then the older versions of most extensions should work. The extensions themselves will evolve but the old versions should work.

[patrickjdempsey]

I'm honestly not sure if PM really is based on 24 ESR or if it's based on 31 ESR with the UI to 24 on top. And I'm really not curious enough to download it to find out. Either way there are disadvantages:

If it's 31 ESR with the 24 interface on top, then eventually there are going to be Theme and Extension support issues as CSS, XBL, and XUL support changes in the Core. Old extensions don't work forever, even without UI changes.

If it's 24 ESR with some newer features ported from current builds, then it's never going to get the kinds of speed and stability improvements that even SeaMonkey gets.

On either path, if the best you can expect is to keep using a hacked old version of an extension, then that means you'll never get bug fixes for that extension, and if the extension depends on external resources (like AdBlock Plus, LastPass, WOT) then it's possible for very small changes to the external resources to badly break the extension.

[LoudNoise]

Matt is apparently going to breath good life into ABP by authoring Latitudes. ABP's rejection of Palemood apparently hit him hard. I would assume that it will have one list and it will be hardcoded.

[LoudNoise]

On either path, if the best you can expect is to keep using a hacked old version of an extension, then that means you'll never get bug fixes for that extension, and if the extension depends on external resources (like AdBlock Plus, LastPass, WOT) then it's possible for very small changes to the external resources to badly break the extension.

Actually, bug fixes for extensions are the least of worries here. Assuming that they are using the esr 24 code base (I haven't a clue either) they are applying esr 31 security fixes to it. While this might work for a while it won't for long.

[Frank Lion]

And it's "Pale Moon", as you well know. We do not resort to deliberately misspelling Mozilla product names, so please be civil. Thank you.

No, you and the rest of the clowns just resort to deliberately having entire threads on the PM forum with the sole objective of bad-mouthing these MozillaZine forums.

Seriously, the sanctimonious hypocrisy just drips off you, like slime off a slug.

Matt is apparently going to breath good life into ABP by authoring Latitudes. ABP's rejection of Palemood apparently hit him hard. I would assume that it will have one list and it will be hardcoded.

Yeah, so I noticed -

Those devs that won't play ball will simply have their add-ons forked as is the case with adblock plus.

That sound civil?

This sound, in view of my previous post, accurate? -

Yeah, because of that! And because I am not gonna pseudo-static update ABP to 2.6.5 when THEY released a new version just the other day and didn't BOTHER to take FIVE SECONDS to add Pale Moon.

http://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?p=39727#p39727

Yeah, good luck with that attitude to extension devs. Back in the day, I had 7,000,000+ users of Metal Lion Vista, not the miserable claimed 200,000 of this bunch, and I know for a fact that the only way to get any compat. changes out of those guys is to be really good to them and to ask them to do you a favour.

[LuvKomputrs]

Found this rather interesting.
http://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6200

Also this is with respect to the code that Pale Moon is using.

Neither, really. Pale Moon 25 includes code from 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, (not so much) 29, 30, 31, 32, 33 and 34. More from all these versions will be cherry-picked if found desirable in the future. In addition, there is plenty of Pale Moon-specific code. As stated elsewhere it is a hybrid. It is its own thing, hence the absolute need to stop carrying the Firefox GUID because it would enforce this kind of comparison and would prevent us from individual development if we at all times have to keep a parallel with a specific version of Firefox.

More information can be found at this link.
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6191

[malliz]

Hybrid must be spin doctor speak for dogs breakfast

[patrickjdempsey]

Well... that's... phew. Good luck to them then. As far as that thread goes:

No real surprise, since the staff at MozillaZine seems to be terribly uninformed about Pale Moon's status, code, changes and approach.

No real surprise, considering that the PM website has been purposefully vague for years now, and continues to be purposefully vague right to this very day. And considering that half of the "evangelists" who come here don't know exactly what it is, and the people "in the know" have never made clarifying statements here, how can anyone expect people who aren't associated at all with the project to know what's going on? No-one has time to dig through your bug reports and the depths of your forums just to find out what exactly your product even IS.

To clarify this quote from Mozillazine, consider the following:

To clarify this quote from the Moon, consider the following:

• Moonchild et al are not experienced Firefox themers with dozens of themes under their belts and collectively decades of experience, which Frank and I are.
• Source Code licensing has always been understood in the Mozilla community to apply to SOURCE CODE and not images. There is a very long history of this going back to the earliest iterations of Firefox when it was still called Phoenix. Any one remember the Qute theme?
• Your average Firefox theme doesn't 100% work even on the versions of Firefox it was built for. So it's certainly not going to work 100% on an application it is not built for.

Pale Moon is still a Mozilla-based browser and as such draws heavily on the Mozilla code that lies at its roots. LoudNoise clearly does not understand anything beyond black or white. Yes, this has likely never been done before by anyone.

Aside from Camino, KMeleon, Conquerer, TenFourFox, SeaMonkey, etc, etc. In fact, what they are doing it pretty much exactly what the Camino developers were doing before they finally gave up 2 years ago... applying security patches to the final release build of Firefox 3.6.

It is its own thing, hence the absolute need to stop carrying the Firefox GUID because it would enforce this kind of comparison and would prevent us from individual development if we at all times have to keep a parallel with a specific version of Firefox.

So it is Firefox 24, but it's not Firefox? Riiight. Good luck getting any extension authors on board that pitch.

It currently advertises Firefox/24.9 to websites if compatMode is enabled - but that will be changed in the near future.
It advertises the same to extensions, although from an extension point of view this only applies to the installation routine. Pale Moon's front-end is "most compatible" with 24ESR as far as UI elements go. This is a temporary situation though, and only in place to allow Mozilla Firefox extensions to continue running on Pale Moon in an "extension compatibility" mode.

Now I'm completely confused. If the plan is to migrate the UI away from Firefox 24 UI... then why try to trick theme and extension authors to jump on board by telling them that it's the same and will stay the same?

I've read all of that, and aside from being a kind of smallish middle-finger to Mozilla, I'm still not sure what exactly this product is, what it's trying to be, or why anyone should bother attempting to support it, or indeed why anyone should use it.

[LuvKomputrs]

Interesting information with respect to the Pale Moon browser from the forum at Adblock Plus.

https://adblockplus.org/forum/viewtopic ... 8&start=15

Why not just remove the Australis patches from Firefox, and use that for PM? Seems a bit backwards using older code, with a few selected patches. It wouldn't take much effort to dissect where Australis was enabled to create a patchset from that.

This "Hybrid" system seems to be lacking any upgrade of Javascript; http://i.imgur.com/jCekkIU.png and very selective html5 option upgrades: http://i.imgur.com/AyVZLQr.png So going by this PM is not ESR31, its ESR24 with very selective patches. Also the javascript benchmarks Octane/V8 weren't very kind to Palemoon.

Until Palemoon is rebased with a newer source, I'd recommend people not to use it.