Firefox Acid3 test builds

Discussion of third-party/unofficial Firefox/Thunderbird/SeaMonkey builds.
strangejulius
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by strangejulius »

i have download yesterday the 3.7 build on second pc but i have in acid3 only 90/100... curious
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wgianopoulos
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by wgianopoulos »

strangejulius wrote:i have download yesterday the 3.7 build on second pc but i have in acid3 only 90/100... curious


This is probably adblock or noscript related. You need to whitelist the acidtests.org domain in order for the test to run correctly.
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wgianopoulos
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by wgianopoulos »

Now that the HTML5 parser has been enabled by default, nightly trunk builds officially score 97/100.
Nomis101
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by Nomis101 »

I'm wondering, what are the missing parts (Bugs) to get 100/100 with Firefox?
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wgianopoulos
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by wgianopoulos »

Nomis101 wrote:I'm wondering, what are the missing parts (Bugs) to get 100/100 with Firefox?

Implementing SVG fonts, which there seems to be some debate as to if and when those will ever be supported.
bug 119490. Even getting to 100/100 does not get a pass here as a couple of sections are too slow to meet the 33Millisend per test speed requirement.
RyanVM
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by RyanVM »

With @font-face support. SVG fonts don't serve much of a purpose.
schapel
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by schapel »

wgianopoulos wrote:
Nomis101 wrote:I'm wondering, what are the missing parts (Bugs) to get 100/100 with Firefox?

Implementing SVG fonts, which there seems to be some debate as to if and when those will ever be supported.
bug 119490. Even getting to 100/100 does not get a pass here as a couple of sections are too slow to meet the 33Millisend per test speed requirement.

There's also the favicon.ico being used even if the reply gives a 404 error, and parentNode of element gets lost.

Nothing magical is going to happen when Firefox passes Acid3. There are more important features to support than SVG fonts, more important bugs to fix than whether a favicon is displayed if the reply gives a 404 error, and more useful measures of JavaScript performance than subtest 26 on the Acid3 test.

Remember, Acid3 is not a competition. The idea behind Acid3 is for the developers of browsers to cooperate by supporting a certain set of features. When all browsers do so, it will make it easier for web developers to develop good sites. While Internet Explorer is performing significantly worse than all other browsers, it doesn't matter much how well the other browsers perform -- it's IE holding back the web. If Firefox supports SVG fonts, the vast majority of web developers still cannot use them, because they won't work in IE. If IE ever supports SVG fonts, then it would be important for Firefox to add support for SVG fonts, because many more web developers would use SVG fonts.
Nomis101
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by Nomis101 »

Seems there is now a discussion going on in bug 119490 about SVG fonts. :D

schapel wrote:If Firefox supports SVG fonts, the vast majority of web developers still cannot use them, because they won't work in IE.

Why that? No one is obliged to use IE. There is allready SVG font support in Opera 10 and Safari 4. Why not also FF?
If you look at the market share of the browsers, than you see (e.g. for germay [1]) Firefox 51,1%, Safari 3,6%, Opera 2,6 %. So, if FF would also support SVG fonts, than there would be 51,1 + 3,6 + 2,6 = 57,3% of browsers with SVG font support. Thats the vast majority, I think. :)

[1]: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webbrowser ... Webbrowser
schapel
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by schapel »

It doesn't sound like you understand my point. If IE, the most widely used browser in the world, does not support SVG fonts, very few web developers will use SVG fonts. Who would use a feature that would cause their site to be displayed incorrectly for over 40% of users? Nearly no one.

The "discussion" in the bug report consists mainly of people not following Bugzilla etiquette by posting "me too" and evangelism comments. I wouldn't be surprised if some people lose their Bugzilla accounts.

Did you ever get frustrated that developers keep adding major new features to a program instead of fixing bugs or finishing the already started features? That's what you're asking Mozilla developers to do by adding SVG fonts. I would rather they make the existing SVG features work well. For example, I've been waiting for baseline-shift support in Firefox for years. In terms of helping to make SVG popular, it would be more effective for the problems with Wikipedia's SVG renderer to be fixed. I've created SVG files that look great in browsers, only to look like s**t after I upload them to Wikipedia.
Denny Crane
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by Denny Crane »

The point is valid, except that, if all browsers waited for all other browsers to implement the features first ... where would that leave progress?
Last edited by Denny Crane on October 15th, 2011, 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
schapel
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by schapel »

I never made the point that Firefox should not support SVG fonts until IE does. I made the opposite point -- when IE supports SVG fonts, Firefox should also. Firefox can also support SVG fonts sooner if someone is kind enough to write the code to support it. I just think there are more important things to work on than getting more points on the Acid3 test. It doesn't mean that contributions aren't welcome.
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wgianopoulos
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by wgianopoulos »

Could you people please start a separate topic Titled something like "Should Firefox support SVG fonts?" and take this discussion over there and return this topic to it;s intended purpose? I would certainly appreciate it.

Thank you.
Denny Crane
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by Denny Crane »

schapel,

If you want to play word games ... I never said that you said that Firefox should not support SVG fonts until IE does, nor has Nomis101 said that SVG fonts should come before any other specific bug.

Regardless of whether all browsers "should not support SVG fonts until" all other browsers do or whether all browsers "should also" support SVG fonts once all other browsers do, both cases would still leave the same dead end for progress.
Last edited by Denny Crane on October 15th, 2011, 4:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
schapel
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by schapel »

You were the one who spoke of waiting. Waiting would lead to a dead end for progress. I never said anything about waiting. If someone is ready to implement SVG fonts, or fix any of the others problems Firefox has with the Acid3 test, they should definitely not wait! I merely think that there are other, more important things for Mozilla developers to be working on than getting a few more points on Acid3.

For the record, I've also said nothing about whether Firefox should or should not support SVG fonts, other than saying if IE supports them, then Firefox should support them.

Please read my posts carefully so you do not misunderstand my meaning.
schapel
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Re: Firefox Acid3 test builds

Post by schapel »

dirtdoge wrote:EDIT: I withdraw my endorsement of schapel's point. I can't agree with anyone who thinks they are the only one allowed to convey an opinion.

Sigh. I never said I was the only one allowed to convey an opinion. You are trying to start an argument where there is none by saying I said things I never did. I have never proposed a "dead end for progress". If you want to dive in and write support for SVG fonts, FANTASTIC! Please don't wait -- do it now! It's simply my opinion, and the opinion of most people who actually do the work on Firefox, that there are other, more important bugs and features to work on than what will get Firefox to pass Acid3. Continuing on adding yet another major SVG feature without fixing existing SVG bugs and adding missing features seems foolhardy, and will not promote the use of SVG, will not help web developers, and will not give users a better experience.
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