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pag77
 
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Post Posted February 21st, 2015, 1:50 pm

but Samsung has not filed an action against me for the use of its links?
where did you get this? from open source?

Ark42
 
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Joined: February 27th, 2004, 8:43 am

Post Posted February 21st, 2015, 1:51 pm

If you know any other big widget that uses AccuWeather, just fire up WireShark and you can get the URL it uses pretty easy, even phone apps.

Ark42
 
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Post Posted February 21st, 2015, 1:53 pm

Public url is public. I didn't sign any NDA or anything, I just watched traffic on my network. I don't see anything wrong with using it.

alta88
 
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Joined: January 28th, 2006, 3:08 pm

Post Posted February 21st, 2015, 4:11 pm

What part of
Code: Select all
Copyright 2015 AccuWeather.com This document is intended only for use by authorized licensees of AccuWeather.com. Unauthorized use is prohibited. All Rights Reserved. samsung mobile Redistribution Prohibited.

is unclear?

@pag77 Thank you very much for saving Forecastfox. I suggest you use the well-known dtd entity and properties strings methods for translations (for firefox/xul). It's easy enough to create the files, incorporate the string labels into the extension, and upload the extension to babelzilla.org or such for translations. It's better not to be constrained by legal/api/network issues for strings. Stealing accuweather's strings or going through google translate is not the way to go. If you need some help, send me a pm.

pag77
 
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Post Posted February 21st, 2015, 5:33 pm

alta88, you are absolutely right - this line "only for use by authorized licensees of AccuWeather.com - samsung mobile" is a big problem.
so I'll go with the original plan - integration with an S3.Google Translator.
Then look at the reaction of the users and if they do not like it, then recruit dictionary of possible words

patrickjdempsey

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Location: Asheville NC

Post Posted February 21st, 2015, 5:40 pm

How many strings are we talking about here? I cannot imagine that setting up a DTD system would be more difficult than connecting to Google. Also, Google may have weird licensing in their Translate for use like this (they restricted access to their maps service a few years ago). You can use Google Translate *once* to create your DTD files and then be done with it.
Tip of the day: If it has "toolbar" in the name, it's crap.
What my avatar is about: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/seamonkey/addon/sea-fox/

pag77
 
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Joined: December 26th, 2013, 10:46 pm

Post Posted February 21st, 2015, 5:59 pm

you have a dictionary of all possible strings?

example:
<shortText>Clouds giving way to some sun</shortText>
<shortText>Partly cloudy</shortText>
<shortText>Times of sun and clouds</shortText>
<shortText>Overcast with a flurry late</shortText>
<shortText>A brief shower or two</shortText>
<longText>Variably cloudy with a brief shower or two</longText>
<shortText>Overcast, a shower; breezy</shortText>
<longText>Plenty of clouds with a shower in spots; breezy</longText>
<shortText>Cloudy, a shower; breezy</shortText>
<longText>Low clouds, breezy and mild with a shower</longText>
<shortText>Rain mixing with snow</shortText>
<shortText>Decreasing clouds</shortText>
<longText>A flurry in the morning; otherwise, after a cloudy start, sunshine returns</longText>
<shortText>Increasing clouds, late snow</shortText>
<longText>Increasing clouds with snow arriving late</longText>
<shortText>A little morning snow</shortText>
<longText>A bit of snow in the morning followed by a shower in spots in the afternoon</longText>
<shortText>Considerable cloudiness</shortText>
<shortText>Low clouds</shortText>
...
etc

patrickjdempsey

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Post Posted February 21st, 2015, 6:04 pm

Hmm.... I guess Accuweather could possibly push any text they wanted through huh?
Tip of the day: If it has "toolbar" in the name, it's crap.
What my avatar is about: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/seamonkey/addon/sea-fox/

pag77
 
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Joined: December 26th, 2013, 10:46 pm

Post Posted February 21st, 2015, 6:07 pm

probably... why I insist on integration with my add-on S3GT

Ark42
 
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Joined: February 27th, 2004, 8:43 am

Post Posted February 21st, 2015, 6:48 pm

pag77 wrote:probably... why I insist on integration with my add-on S3GT


Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in thinking that I'd only want the AccuWeather widget to communicate with nothing other than accuweather.com to pull weather data, or I'd probably uninstall / fork the project.
Even if the other communication is directly to Google, and I already use Google as my home page, it would still feel very wrong to have the weather widget making network connections to other hosts.

Brummelchen
 
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Joined: March 19th, 2005, 10:51 am

Post Posted February 22nd, 2015, 2:31 am

why I insist on integration with my add-on S3GT

not really helpful for those messages, in german some are shorter and more precisely than pure translation, i tested some on google
example:
<shortText>Clouds giving way to some sun</shortText>Wolkig mit vereinzelten Sonnenstrahlen
<shortText>Partly cloudy</shortText>teils bewölkt
<shortText>Times of sun and clouds</shortText>Sonne-Wolken-Mix
<shortText>Overcast with a flurry late</shortText>Bedeckt, später Böen
<shortText>A brief shower or two</shortText>Vereinzelt Schauer
<longText>Variably cloudy with a brief shower or two</longText>Wechselnde Bewölkung mit vereinzelten Schauern
<shortText>Overcast, a shower; breezy</shortText>Bedeckt, Schauer, Böen
<longText>Plenty of clouds with a shower in spots; breezy</longText>Bewölkt mit vereinzelten Schauern
<shortText>Cloudy, a shower; breezy</shortText>Wolkig, Schauer, Böen[
<longText>Low clouds, breezy and mild with a shower</longText>
<shortText>Rain mixing with snow</shortText>Schneeregen
<shortText>Decreasing clouds</shortText>Abnehmende Wolkendecke
<longText>A flurry in the morning; otherwise, after a cloudy start, sunshine returns</longText>Windig, mit abnehmenden Wolken kehrt die Sonne zurück
<shortText>Increasing clouds, late snow</shortText>Zunehmende Bewölkung, später Schneefall
<longText>Increasing clouds with snow arriving late</longText>Zunehmende Bewölkung, am Abend Schneefall
<shortText>A little morning snow</shortText>morgens Schneefall
<longText>A bit of snow in the morning followed by a shower in spots in the afternoon</longText>Morgens noch Schneefall, Nachmittags dann vereinzelt noch Regen
<shortText>Considerable cloudiness</shortText>starke Bewölkung
<shortText>Low clouds</shortText>geringe Bewölkung
...

pag77
 
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Joined: December 26th, 2013, 10:46 pm

Post Posted February 22nd, 2015, 2:45 am

if I make a weather forecasting use of http://forecastfox3.accuweather.com/ + http://samsungmobile.accu-weather.com/?
http://forecastfox3.accuweather.com/ - as usual for the forecast
http://samsungmobile.accu-weather.com/ - only for localized strings

I violate the law?

Ark42
 
Posts: 18
Joined: February 27th, 2004, 8:43 am

Post Posted February 22nd, 2015, 5:26 am

pag77 wrote:if I make a weather forecasting use of http://forecastfox3.accuweather.com/ + http://samsungmobile.accu-weather.com/?
http://forecastfox3.accuweather.com/ - as usual for the forecast
http://samsungmobile.accu-weather.com/ - only for localized strings

I violate the law?


My opinion is no. In the USA, you can't put a restriction on a URL after you download it. You also can't copyright facts. The current weather at a given location, and simple words translated to other languages are both "facts".
Presentation may be copyrightable, and "future predictions" forecast data might be a grey area, but there is nothing illegal about accessing a URL.

Can't you build a local database of strings and their English equivalents over time, locally using the other URL, then just store all the English->Translations for each language as a built-in look-up table? I guess I figure there are only so many (days of the week, the word Now, maybe 20 possible weather conditions like sun, rain, snow, etc).

patrickjdempsey

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Location: Asheville NC

Post Posted February 22nd, 2015, 10:49 am

Ark42 wrote:Presentation may be copyrightable, and "future predictions" forecast data might be a grey area, but there is nothing illegal about accessing a URL.


And you are a lawyer specializing in technology and copyright? Sorry Charlie but you have no idea what you are talking about. Scraping URL's with Wireshark is not even remotely the same thing as a public-facing URL, and even if it was public they have the right to charge for access to their servers to get data that they compiled and interpreted. Not only that, but Samsung probably pays a pretty penny for that access and so that is Samsung's data we are talking about. This isn't TOR or some "warez" site where anything goes.

The National Weather Service or NOAA may have some free API's to access, but that's probably not going to give you other languages or local weather around the world.

I'm thinking that probably the best approach to use is not going to be the simplest thing in the world. It's a three-part approach:

1. For English speaking countries you use your base: forecastfox3.accuweather.com
2. For common phrases in common languages you use Localization techniques for the best accuracy.
3. For everything else, you use your Google translation.

As time goes on you can beef up your localized phrase database so that the translations will improve with time. While this will increase your installer size, I don't think it will dramatically increase your overhead because I believe only one locale is loaded into memory at startup. Check your statistics at AMO to see your most common locales.
Tip of the day: If it has "toolbar" in the name, it's crap.
What my avatar is about: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/seamonkey/addon/sea-fox/

alta88
 
Posts: 1003
Joined: January 28th, 2006, 3:08 pm

Post Posted February 22nd, 2015, 10:55 am

Ark42 wrote:
pag77 wrote:if I make a weather forecasting use of http://forecastfox3.accuweather.com/ + http://samsungmobile.accu-weather.com/?
http://forecastfox3.accuweather.com/ - as usual for the forecast
http://samsungmobile.accu-weather.com/ - only for localized strings

I violate the law?


My opinion is no. In the USA, you can't put a restriction on a URL after you download it. You also can't copyright facts. The current weather at a given location, and simple words translated to other languages are both "facts".
Presentation may be copyrightable, and "future predictions" forecast data might be a grey area, but there is nothing illegal about accessing a URL.


All of this misses the point. Try to redistribute a Reuters financial data 'number', that you've even paid for, and you will be introduced to a dozen lawyers. The issue at law would be redistribution, effectively relicensing for unapproved use by a third party, which the copyright explicitly prohibits. Now the question is whether this is redistribution (ie aggregated on your server or within your software) or merely 'enabling software' (ie any single person can access a public website). Case law is littered with shut services identified as the latter, the latest variation being Aereo.

Plus, even Captain Obvious knows a url intended for samsung, which they've likely paid for, is not intended for anyone else's scraping, commercial or not.

And all that is moot based on what Accuweather feels like doing. Maybe they don't care. Maybe you (or Mozilla) never get a 'stop doing that' letter. But it seems the api was effectively designed (without dictionary codes, and without even a published dictionary of strings apparently) to prevent easy translation without buying their's.

Since you are actually doing them a big favor by enabling them to grab permanent screen real estate (clickable to their site) then there clearly is a business reason to allow you to extend this to non en locales. Ask them, maybe find out what the previous guys did regarding a business relationship etc.

Can't you build a local database of strings and their English equivalents over time, locally using the other URL, then just store all the English->Translations for each language as a built-in look-up table? I guess I figure there are only so many (days of the week, the word Now, maybe 20 possible weather conditions like sun, rain, snow, etc).


This is a possibility, ie creating a key from short-text and long-text, and getting them translated. But it's fragile potentially, if they don't just have a lot of prepackaged strings that rarely vary.

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