Cloudflare

Discussion of bugs in Seamonkey
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James
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Re: Cloudflare

Post by James »

DerVVulfman wrote:On a stupid side note, clicking the Seamonkey logo at the right edge of the Navigation Toolbar brings up the "Download Now: 2.53.16" webpage... even though it is currently the one in use. Who blundered there? :P
The throbber url is set to https://www.seamonkey-project.org/ in about:config as you can set it to whatever you want. Not a blunder when it is just linking to the Seamonkey project homepage. The download page would have been https://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/
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Frank Lion
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Re: Cloudflare

Post by Frank Lion »

DerVVulfman wrote:I am returning with another site now using CloudFlare,
A site that you do not name, I notice.

This is a technical Bugs Forum, not a forum for utter drivel posts . Please take your idle chatter elsewhere.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)
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DerVVulfman
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Re: Cloudflare

Post by DerVVulfman »

Frank Lion wrote:
DerVVulfman wrote:I am returning with another site now using CloudFlare,
A site that you do not name, I notice.
Okay, fine. So another site is needed: https://www.abuseipdb.com

I use the site as a triplecheck as other sites such as StopForumSpam now appear inadequate to block hackers. AbuseIP now uses Cloudflare and will hate any Seamonkey users with the currently defined UA string in place.

But excuse me, but I will not bow down to the disrespectful level shown. And idle chatter it is not. It appears that Firefox had this problem in the past (2017), but was fixed, and now it is becoming more prevalent with Seamonkey instead. As it is a recurring issue that some know how to fix and a fix CAN be applied, it is by that definition a bug... plain and simple.
Questioning Seamonkey support for various reasons now... claims its the websites when other browsers function, states users need to apply UA overrides (fixing it themselves) whilst no other browser has such need, suggests using other browsers... and closes topics when inconvenient.
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Frank Lion
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Re: Cloudflare

Post by Frank Lion »

DerVVulfman wrote:Okay, fine. So another site is needed: https://www.abuseipdb.com
... AbuseIP now uses Cloudflare and will hate any Seamonkey users with the currently defined UA string in place.
That site works for me. (tested with a clean default testing profile)


Image

It would appear that the problem is at your end.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)
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DerVVulfman
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Re: Cloudflare

Post by DerVVulfman »

Simultaneously, it appears they no longer have Cloudflare in use.

When it was enabled, even Firefox displayed a Cloudflare -testing permission screen prior to entry. That screen which appeared before accessing the site is no longer present.

But that doesn't detract from the initial argument that the browser is, from its recent builds into the current 2.53.16 version, currently deficient in content required by Cloudflare.
Frank Lion wrote:As has happened before, this latest stuff with Cloudflare is just a simple UA string fix.
The quote was from January, and this is now April. The 2.53.15 build (the previous one) was itself in a beta stage at the time.

IF it has happened before, if it is known, why has this 'simple UA string fix' not been incorporated?

It isn't the end-users' responsibility to perform this fix. And many would not know that this fix exists, or how to perform it. This falls squarely upon development.
Questioning Seamonkey support for various reasons now... claims its the websites when other browsers function, states users need to apply UA overrides (fixing it themselves) whilst no other browser has such need, suggests using other browsers... and closes topics when inconvenient.
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DanRaisch
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Re: Cloudflare

Post by DanRaisch »

Frank Lion wrote:
As has happened before, this latest stuff with Cloudflare is just a simple UA string fix.
DerVVulfman wrote:The quote was from January, and this is now April. The 2.53.15 build (the previous one) was itself in a beta stage at the time.
IF it has happened before, if it is known, why has this 'simple UA string fix' not been incorporated?
It isn't the end-users' responsibility to perform this fix. And many would not know that this fix exists, or how to perform it. This falls squarely upon development.
It seems you may not understand what a "UA string fix" is. Different sites (some poorly coded) will choke on a valid SeaMonkey UA string but accept a string that spoofs a Firefox version, whether current or older. As no single string will satisfy all such sites it is not reasonable to expect the developers of SeaMonkey to waste time working out a solution, particularly when it is so easy for a user to resolve things on their own. The method has been posted on these forums in multiple threads. A brief search will show that and also that Frank Lion has been one of those offering guidance on the process.
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DerVVulfman
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Re: Cloudflare

Post by DerVVulfman »

Then please define why Firefox, which had the issue years ago, no longer has such problems. Explain why two products produced within the same community refuse to share such achievements and keeps one crippled.

As towards expecting the developers of Seamonkey to work out a solution, that is their job. As a coder (familiar with Assembler, Cobol, Pascal, Fortran, Basic, Ruby, HTML,... ), I know this as a fact. Stating that it is a waste of time is argumentative, particularly when it is calling upon its users to repeatedly apply patches in their stead.

And no, it is not easy for a user to resolve such things. Not everyone is computer literate in altering/editing of settings, let alone know where those settings need to be changed nor how to implement such changes.

It should not be the user's responsibility to perform any search for a solution, nor any repair that should already have been made... as such as the ones that are no longer necessary with Firefox.

The issue of Cloudflare has been in existence for months. There have been updates to Seamonkey since this began. And there has not been any resolution when one should have been made, or at least a statement that this is a known issue.
Questioning Seamonkey support for various reasons now... claims its the websites when other browsers function, states users need to apply UA overrides (fixing it themselves) whilst no other browser has such need, suggests using other browsers... and closes topics when inconvenient.
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DanRaisch
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Re: Cloudflare

Post by DanRaisch »

More invalid assumptions on your part. It's not the same developers working on the two products. SeaMonkey is a smaller volunteer group although they capitalize on the work of the Firefox team by using the same browser rendering engine. If you had read my previous note carefully you would have noticed that I said "Different sites (some poorly coded) will choke on a valid SeaMonkey UA string but accept a string that spoofs a Firefox version, whether current or older." Obviously Firefox doesn't have to spoof the UA as it starts out with a Firefox UA.
And no, it is not easy for a user to resolve such things. Not everyone is computer literate in altering/editing of settings
If they are computer literate enough to find the forum and look for support, they are computer literate enough to open an "About config" page and change a value provided (with detailed instructions) by those offering support here. You are wasting more time arguing the point than it would take to fix the issue.
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DerVVulfman
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Re: Cloudflare

Post by DerVVulfman »

DanRaisch wrote:More invalid assumptions on your part. It's not the same developers working on the two products.
DerVVulfman wrote:Explain why two products produced within the same community refuse to share such achievements and keeps one crippled.
DerVVulfman wrote:As towards expecting the developers of Seamonkey to work out a solution, that is their job.
Looks like you were in error. Clearly I stated that it was within the same community, this forum. And I have referred to the separation of the two development teams, that I specified Seamonkey's team as seen above. The invalid assumption is yours. Can there not be any outreach between the two teams?

And I did read your description where you suggested that the issues were from "Different sites (some poorly coded)". However, if you saw in an earlier post when I attempted to contact Nexus Mods, they state they are not granting support to Seamonkey regarding Cloudflare issues, and they suggested I switch to another browser.

As such, it appears more that support for Seamonkey is waning. Is the Seamonkey UA string valid? Perhaps, but with support waning, so too is the validity of the UA string being supplied. Clearly that a problem unto itself.
DanRaisch wrote:If they are computer literate enough to find the forum and look for support, they are computer literate enough to open an "About config" page and change a value provided (with detailed instructions) by those offering support here. You are wasting more time arguing the point than it would take to fix the issue.
And that statement of yours suggests that users are responsible to actually perform an edit that should not be necessary, and waiving the responsibility of the developers to take care of an issue that has been in existence for quite some time.

The responsibility is not the users'.
Questioning Seamonkey support for various reasons now... claims its the websites when other browsers function, states users need to apply UA overrides (fixing it themselves) whilst no other browser has such need, suggests using other browsers... and closes topics when inconvenient.
rdtom
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Re: Cloudflare

Post by rdtom »

I stated that it was within the same community
WRONG!! ](*,)
It is not the same community.
Firefox has lot more money and can afford to pay developers.
SeaMonkey is a volunteer effort, and relies on unpaid support.
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DanRaisch
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Re: Cloudflare

Post by DanRaisch »

It's gotten rather clear that this discussion has run out of reason to continue. Locking before it descends into argument.
Locked