MozillaZine

New Mozilla.org Website Beta

Discussion of general topics about Mozilla Firefox
literocker
 
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Post Posted August 23rd, 2004, 6:50 am

show me active button for each section i'm in.

geofharries
 
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Post Posted August 23rd, 2004, 8:48 am

I don't feel like sorting through all 7 pages of this current topic, so I'm posting what may be similar comments already.

The Homepage and Products page need to be brought together as one cohesive unit. They share a few of the same attributes (how to get involved or donate, product listings) and frankly the Products page has a lot more "oomph!" to it. The Homepage is awfully boring and is too long of a scroll with information that many peole won't care much about. Give the viewers a focus point and don't distract from your mission...getting folks to use Mozilla products....currently the page design is way too busy and improperly balanced between key elements.

Furthermore, I really feel as if the Products page http://website-beta.mozilla.org/products/ needs to have more clearly defined headings for the 3 top products. Instead of just having the names of the products sort them by Web Browser, Email etc. to categorize their functions. To the Mozilla rookie these are just a bunch of pretty icons which all do the same thing. Give them some direction.

geof

whistleway
 
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Post Posted August 23rd, 2004, 10:07 am

Quick Minor Stuff:

Wow!.. Cleaned up a lot of design elements and looks visually pleasing and simple.

Links on http://website-beta.mozilla.org/products/firefox/:

* "Get Extensions" anchor text currently points to http://update.mozilla.org/. Would it be preferable to point it to http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/?a ... on=firefox (like texturizer.net?). Less clicks to get the users (especially IE converts, the faster they get to use it?)

* Similarly, "Get Themes" can be linked to http://update.mozilla.org/themes/?application=firefox ?

* Anchor Text "Firefox on a CD" currently points to http://www.mozillastore.com/products/software/cd (Mozilla CD?).

whistleway
 
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Post Posted August 23rd, 2004, 10:14 am

Give them some direction.


The wisest thing that is said on this entire thread...

Adding another vote for clarity/purpose of the mozilla.org website.... Aye !!

Stefan

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Post Posted August 23rd, 2004, 10:43 am

geofharries wrote:The Homepage... ... design is way too busy and improperly balanced between key elements.


It's bad enough to skip reading a thread before posting to it, but did you even bother to look at the pages you are critisizing?

This is what is sais at the very top:
NOTE: This home page on the website beta has not been updated for the new design yet.

Just starting to get a bit annoyed at all the people constantly harping on about how bad the first page is when it clearly sais it's not done.

Furthermore, I really feel as if the Products page http://website-beta.mozilla.org/products/ needs to have more clearly defined headings for the 3 top products. Instead of just having the names of the products sort them by Web Browser, Email etc. to categorize their functions.


What do you mean?
Thunderbird - mentions inbox in heading, email-client in the first sentence & has a letter in the icon.
FF - Browser in title, browser in first sentence & "traditional" webbrowser globe icon.
Mozilla -> "Web-browser built for 2004, advanced e-mail and newsgroup client, IRC chat client, and HTML editing made simple -- all your Internet needs in one application."

How can you even make that more specific to exactly what it is?

whistleway
 
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Post Posted August 23rd, 2004, 11:11 am

Stefan,

too many choices = no choices.

Show a newbie this page, http://website-beta.mozilla.org/products/, and see how s/he reacts to it.

geofharries
 
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Post Posted August 23rd, 2004, 11:22 am

Thunderbird - mentions inbox in heading, email-client in the first sentence & has a letter in the icon.
FF - Browser in title, browser in first sentence & "traditional" webbrowser globe icon.
Mozilla -> "Web-browser built for 2004, advanced e-mail and newsgroup client, IRC chat client, and HTML editing made simple -- all your Internet needs in one application."

How can you even make that more specific to exactly what it is?


Those are important keywords buried in a paragraph when they should be more prominent. On the web, people scan pages looking for keywords or headings that are relevant to their goal or objectives. Using headings such as Web Browser or Email would provide a visual anchor and a resting spot for the eye.

And by the way, I read most of the thread before posting, just not in detail...or should I say I scanned it :)

Olijames
 
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Post Posted August 23rd, 2004, 12:56 pm

I realise that everyone is critising this site but i think its ok. I mean I prefer the old one i felt it had more of a homely feel to it. I think this one is the cross between macromedia off white almost grey style and the zdnet review site.

http://www.macromedia.com and http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/?legacy=cnet

There is a bug with the site that i have seen in firefox 0.9.3 and that is on

http://website-beta.mozilla.org/project ... nbird.html

at the bottom the horizontal rule goes through the left hand menu.

Stefan

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Post Posted August 23rd, 2004, 2:52 pm

whistleway wrote:Show a newbie this page, http://website-beta.mozilla.org/products/, and see how s/he reacts to it.


Newbie = beginner ... but beginner at what?
Understanding the target group for a website is the very first step of a successful design. It's not like people will accidentally wander into the Mozilla site.

I would assume that at least 99% of the people to get there gets there through:

1) Read about the software in a newspaper/computermag/online (forum, blog or review).
2) Clicked a button on a webpage.
3) Personal recomendation / seeing a friend use the software.
4) Did a "google" for eg browser or email client.

In all these cases the visitor has a resonably good idea what they are looking for. Ie, they won't accidentally stumble in expecting to find say 3D-rendering software, memorymodules, kitchen appliances or knitting patterns.

The people not knowing anything about why they are at the site nor capable of the attensionspan required to read 1 sentence most likely wouldn't get to the webpage in the first place nor would they bother to download and try out the software even if they did.

GriZly
 
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Post Posted August 23rd, 2004, 7:45 pm

<a href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=4025&t=85"><img border="0" alt="Get Firefox!" title="Get Firefox!" src="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/community/images/affiliates/Buttons/80x15/firefox_80x15.png"/></a>

Tesla

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Post Posted August 23rd, 2004, 8:08 pm

g0ph3r wrote:.....
The beta page has a fixed width (overall) in comparison with the current page. IMO that is a serious regression which makes the new page look as if the mozilla organization doesn't know how to write a webpage... :?
.....


I totally agree!! It is regression and doesn't look professional (IMO) - specially centered - like I said earlier in this post it needs to be left justified. :)

Tesla

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Post Posted August 23rd, 2004, 8:45 pm

Here are a few websites witch take advantage of the full screen and looks good in all resolutions:
http://www.mozillazine.org/
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/default.mspx
http://www.king5.com/
http://www.kirotv.com/

Here is a website that has a fixed width, left justified, and has a background besides white in the unused space:
http://www.foxnews.com/

IMO either of these two formats are pleasing to the eye.

omstedall
 
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Location: Beijing, China

Post Posted August 23rd, 2004, 9:17 pm

I apologise if some of these points have already been made elsewhere in the thread - I haven't had time to read through the whole topic. These are a couple of thoughts that I have had about the current design and how it can be improved. Most of these suggestions, involve content and structure rather than the visual design (images etc.)

Firstly I would like to say that the beta is a considerable step forward, and I like the design a lot - kudos to the silver-orange team. These suggestions are here to provide improvements in areas that I think are lacking. Most of what I am talking about here applies to Firefox, but the points I am making can also be applied to the other products on the site.

The way I see it, the Mozilla site should serve Firefox in two ways:

1. Convince site visitors to download and install Firefox
2. Once installed, educate users so that they keep Firefox installed (and preferably as their primary browser)

I will deal with these in 2 sections

1. SELL FIREFOX TO VISITORS

Firefox has a number of features that make it better than the competition. We know this, but what we have to do is convince a visitor in a matter of moments, that they need these features. The average user does not know what they are missing, and what we need to do is explain concisely and clearly what each feature does and how it is better than the competition (ie IE)

Let's look first at the 'Why Choose Firefox Section?" on the new beta site:

http://website-beta.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

First off, some of the key features that originally converted me to Firefox are not mentioned here. I admit that everyone likes the browser for a different reason, but these were what clinched it for me:

- Multiple Homepages - The ability to set up any number of different sites to load in tabs as your homepage. I love that I can have several different news sites appear instantly when I open my browser.

- Mycroft Site Search - Quite simply my favourite feature. I love the fact that I can search not only Google from the toolbar, but also Wikipedia, Dictionay.com, Amazon, MRQE etc. This is totally indispensable and saves a huge amout of time.

I think it would be a good idea to mention these in this section. Furthermore, I think that each Firefox feature should be clickable, and should include an icon to visualise it where possible. Clicking on each entry should take you to a 'Firefox Features' page giving expanded information explaining the specific feature (with screenshots). I would suggest using Ben's article as the basis for this:

http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/why/

Also I think the concept of Extensions should be explained more prominently here - "S M L XL XXL XXXL" does not say much as a heading. The casual viewer is unlikely to look at it. Extensions are a powerful feature, but are an alien concept to the everage IE user. Firefox users understand very quickly how extensions are useful but it is a difficult concept to sell to users of IE since they don't know what they are missing. Clear explanations are needed for all these 'advanced' browser features so that newbies can better understand how Firefox will enhance their browsing experience.

With that in mind I bring you to my second idea...

2, EDUCATE NEW USERS SO THEY KEEP FIREFOX AS THEIR FIRST CHOICE

Once we have convinced a new user to download and install Firefox, our next task is to educate them on how to use it, and more importantly, give them a reason not to uninstall it. Diehard users of IE are used to having the integration with windows. This is always a hard nut to crack for new users of alternative browsers. What we need to do is educate the new user on all the other great features of the browser, so that the advantages of the new features outnumber the drawbacks of ditching windows explorer integration. [ Linux / Mac users I admit are not affected by this... ]

With that in mind I suggest creating a default homepage for fresh installations of Firefox. For those people importing their homepage setting from IE the page could also be reached from a link on the tools menu ("Firefox Tutorial"). I would suggest something like...

http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/welcome/ (this is a suggestion for the URL - the page does not exist!)

The aim of this page will be to clearly explain to new users the advanced browser functions such as:

* Tabbed Browsing - How it works, why it's faster, how to best use it (clicking mouse-wheel to open links etc.)
* Extensions - What they are, how to install them, Perhaps a direct link to the most popular,
* Themes - How they work etc, how to install
* Search Bar - About the browser Serach bar, how to add engines, explanation of the Mycroft project. Links to the most popular engines (incl. plugin search). Also explain search shortcuts from address window.
* Popup Blocker - What it does and how it works.
* Status Bar - About status bar and security
* Livefeeds - About RSS, How it works, Why better than email newsletter, How to add Livefeeds
* Keyboard Shortcuts
* and more....
* Multiple Homepages - The last feature in the tutorial should be an explanation of how to change the homepage, as well as how to have multiple tabs as your homepage.

It could perhaps present each tutorial feature every day controlled by cookies (to see which sections you have previously viewed) or simply be all on one page. Alternative methods, would be to perhaps have a "Tip of the Day" sidebar (perhaps as an extension that can be removed) that explains these features. Your thoughts are welcomed....

FINAL THOUGHTS

One more idea I had would be have a link on the Firefox product page to a browser comparison chart giving a side by side comparison of the features of each browser (ie Compare IE, Opera, Netscape & Firefox) so users can see instantly where Firefox offers improvements over the competiton.

Well those are my musings. Digest and disect at your leisure...

I welcome your thoughts and criticisms.

Oliver

omstedall
 
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Post Posted August 24th, 2004, 2:01 am

As a follow on from my previous post, I have rewritten the 'Why Use Firefox Section?'

Some notes:
<ul>
<li>My idea was to break down the points in to 4 sections, to make it clearer. Each could be color coded, to make them stand out.</li>
<li>Most (if not all) headings will be clickable and the user will be taken to a detailed description of that feature incl. screenshots.)</li>
<li>I think that the 'developer' bullet should appear as a seperate button beneath the list since it is not a function required by most end users.</li>
<li>'Thunderbird' feature should also appear as a button (with logo) </li>
<li>Also, I think that the awards quotes should go in a seperate box, so that they stand out</li>
<li>I have made an executive decision to always refer to the 'Location Bar' and not the 'Address Bar' - just to ensure continnuity of terminology. I also use the term 'Information Bar', 'Status Bar' and 'Search Bar'. </li>
<li> This is a draft - please offer changes and suggestions</li>
</ul>

NOTE: THIS DOCUMENT IS CONSTANTLY EVOLVING AS I THINK OF WAYS TO IMPROVE THE CONTENT. CHECK BACK OFTEN.

<B>WHY CHOOSE FIREFOX?</B><BR>
<strong>Next-Generation Web Browsing<br></strong>
Award-Winning Technology brings you the latest features.
<ul>
<li><strong>Tabbed Browsing </strong><br>
View more than one web page in a single window with this time saving feature. Open links in the background so that they're ready for viewing when you're ready to read them. You can even have multiple tabs as your homepage so all your favorite sites are accessible at once</li>
<li><strong>Popup Blocker <br>
</strong>Automatically stop annoying popup ads in their tracks with Firefox's built in popup blocker. </li>
<li><strong>Download Manager </strong><br>
With the built in download manager, you can pause and resume file transfers, and retry those that are broken. Files are also automatically saved to your desktop so they're easy to find. </li>
<li><strong>Livemarks </strong><br>
Integrated RSS feeds mean information is now at your fingertips <strong></strong></li>
</ul>
<strong>Search Smarter and Faster<br>
</strong>Firefox empowers you to find the information you need faster…
<ul>
<li><strong>Toolbar Google Search <br>
</strong>Google Search is built right into the toolbar saving you time. </li>
<li><strong>Search Plugins <br>
</strong>Bring the search to you – using the extensive library of search plugins, your favorite sites can now be searched directly from the toolbar. Amazon, Wikipedia etc. are now available instantly… </li>
<li><strong>Smart Keywords <br>
</strong>Quickly search your favourite sites from the Location Bar by using Smart Keywords. (eg. type "dict <I>searchterm</I>" to seach dictionary.com) </li>
<li><strong>Find-as-you-Type <br>
</strong>Start typing the first few letters of some text in the page and Firefox takes you there <strong></strong></li>
</ul>
<strong>Simple, Safe & Secure </strong><br>
Browse the web with confidence.
<ul>
<li><strong>Privacy & Security <br>
</strong>Built with your Security in mind, Firefox keeps your computer safe from malicious spyware by not loading harmful ActiveX controls. A comprehensive set of privacy tools keep your online activity your business. </li>
<li><strong>Fits Like a Glove <br>
</strong>Simple and intuitive, yet fully featured, Firefox has all the functions you're used to - Bookmarks, History, Full Screen, Text Zooming to make pages with small text easier to read, etc. </li>
<li><strong>Setup's a Snap <br>
</strong>At only 4.7MB (Windows), Firefox only takes minutes to download over a fast connection. The installer gets you set up quickly, and the new Easy Transition system imports all of your settings - Favorites, passwords and other data from Internet Explorer and other browsers - so you can start surfing right away. </li>
</ul>
<strong>Your Browser, Your Way<br>
</strong>Firefox is the most customizable browser on the planet.
<ul>
<li><strong>Extensions <br>
</strong>Extensions are small programs (or plug-ins) that add new functionality to Firefox. It can be anything from a toolbar button to a completely new feature, such as mouse gestures. The Mozilla Update website contains a massive library of extensions for you to use. <strong></strong></li>
<li><strong>Themes <br>
</strong>With themes, you can change the look and feel of Firefox. A theme can change anything from just the toolbar buttons to the whole browser appearance. You can download and install themes with just a few clicks from the Mozilla Update website.<strong></strong></li>
<li><strong>Toolbar Customization <br>
</strong>The toolbars in Firefox are completely customizable, allowing you to add and remove items (buttons, search field, bookmarks, etc.) to the toolbars as well as create new toolbars.</li>
</ul>
<strong>A Developer's Best Friend </strong>
Firefox comes with a standard set of developer tools including a powerful JavaScript and CSS error/warning console, and an optional Document Inspector that gives unheard of insight into how your pages work. It is also meet the W3C guidelines for standards compliance.
<br><strong>Read Mail—Not Spam </strong>
Thunderbird is the perfect complement to Firefox. <a href="http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/">More information </a>
Last edited by omstedall on August 29th, 2004, 1:14 am, edited 5 times in total.

=franCk=
 
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Post Posted August 24th, 2004, 3:25 am

omstedall : excellent categories, now I see why companies are delocalizing to China!

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