Advertisement in the official FF 1.0 de-DE! Officially? Why?
-
pariah
- Posts: 7
- Joined: November 17th, 2004, 5:27 am
[[ Pariah can you or someone else translate(not paraphrase) this paragraph for me, it seems important but babel borked on part of it. ]]
Translation:
"I can stand behind the integration* decision, as can Mozilla Europe and the Mozilla Foundation. Mozilla.org has 10-15 permanently employed staff. That's necessary, when you consider the codebase: not everybody has to know everything about everything, but a basic foundation [of expertise] is required, and the development of this project can't be done with 10-20 hours' work per week - ask my boss!. Mozilla would surely rather go bankrupt, or at least undergo a complete change of personnel, than retool itself as adware or sell data about its users to third parties. However, if integrated* parts of the program offer an opportunity to finance further development or finance the technical resources, then we should be allowed to take that opportunity."
* The word "inhaltlich" is a bit tricky to translate; literally, it means "to do with the content", e.g. not a usability/decoration issue. But I've known it used also to refer to 'the gist' or essence of something, or a core-argument as opposed to extraneous details.
[/quote]AxelHect wrote:Die inhaltliche Entscheidung aber kann sowohl ich als auch Mozilla Europe und die Mozilla Foundation vertreten. mozilla.org hat 10-15 fest angestellte Mitarbeiter. Das ist bei den Sourcen auch nötig, es muss zwar nicht jeder sich überall auskennen, aber einen Grundstock braucht es schon. Und die Entwicklungen in diesem Projekt sind mit 10-20 Wochenstunden nicht zu verfolgen. Fragt meinen Chef. Mozilla wird sicherlich eher Pleite gehen (oder zumindest einen kompletten Wechsel der Belegschaft durchmachen), bevor wir unsere Produkte zu adware umrüsten oder aber Daten unserer Nutzer an Dritte verkaufen. Sollten aber Teile der Programme, die aus inhaltlichen Gründen drin sind, sich anbieten, die weitere Entwicklung oder die technischen Ressourcen zu finanzieren, so sollten wir diese Chance nutzen dürfen.
Translation:
"I can stand behind the integration* decision, as can Mozilla Europe and the Mozilla Foundation. Mozilla.org has 10-15 permanently employed staff. That's necessary, when you consider the codebase: not everybody has to know everything about everything, but a basic foundation [of expertise] is required, and the development of this project can't be done with 10-20 hours' work per week - ask my boss!. Mozilla would surely rather go bankrupt, or at least undergo a complete change of personnel, than retool itself as adware or sell data about its users to third parties. However, if integrated* parts of the program offer an opportunity to finance further development or finance the technical resources, then we should be allowed to take that opportunity."
* The word "inhaltlich" is a bit tricky to translate; literally, it means "to do with the content", e.g. not a usability/decoration issue. But I've known it used also to refer to 'the gist' or essence of something, or a core-argument as opposed to extraneous details.
-
_hb_
- Posts: 28
- Joined: November 15th, 2004, 9:13 am
@esavior / translation
so I give it a try :
The decision { pointing to the content } can be represented by me and both Mozilla Europe and the Mozilla Foundation too.
mozilla.org has 10-15 firmly employed coworkers.
That is also necessary with the sources, not everyone must know all everywhere, but you should have a basic stock ( of coworkers ).
And the developments in this project are not to be pursued with { only } 10-20 weekly hours.
Ask my boss.
Mozilla will go surely rather to failure { go into bancrupcy } (or at least will go through a complete change of the staff ), before we change our products to adware or sel ldata of our users to third party.
However if there are / will be parts of the programs, included as is { in contrary to beeing included to that special purpose } , which offer itself to finance the further development or technical resources then we should be allowed to use this chance.
#######################################
If / when someone is able to do better .. I'll stand corrected.
AxelHect wrote:Die inhaltliche Entscheidung aber kann sowohl ich als auch Mozilla Europe und die Mozilla Foundation vertreten. mozilla.org hat 10-15 fest angestellte Mitarbeiter. Das ist bei den Sourcen auch nötig, es muss zwar nicht jeder sich überall auskennen, aber einen Grundstock braucht es schon. Und die Entwicklungen in diesem Projekt sind mit 10-20 Wochenstunden nicht zu verfolgen. Fragt meinen Chef. Mozilla wird sicherlich eher Pleite gehen (oder zumindest einen kompletten Wechsel der Belegschaft durchmachen), bevor wir unsere Produkte zu adware umrüsten oder aber Daten unserer Nutzer an Dritte verkaufen. Sollten aber Teile der Programme, die aus inhaltlichen Gründen drin sind, sich anbieten, die weitere Entwicklung oder die technischen Ressourcen zu finanzieren, so sollten wir diese Chance nutzen dürfen.
The decision { pointing to the content } can be represented by me and both Mozilla Europe and the Mozilla Foundation too.
mozilla.org has 10-15 firmly employed coworkers.
That is also necessary with the sources, not everyone must know all everywhere, but you should have a basic stock ( of coworkers ).
And the developments in this project are not to be pursued with { only } 10-20 weekly hours.
Ask my boss.
Mozilla will go surely rather to failure { go into bancrupcy } (or at least will go through a complete change of the staff ), before we change our products to adware or sel ldata of our users to third party.
However if there are / will be parts of the programs, included as is { in contrary to beeing included to that special purpose } , which offer itself to finance the further development or technical resources then we should be allowed to use this chance.
#######################################
If / when someone is able to do better .. I'll stand corrected.
-
_hb_
- Posts: 28
- Joined: November 15th, 2004, 9:13 am
esavior wrote:So I guess he is saying that the Mozilla Foundation is okay with it and that it wasnt just a rogue act by MozEurope
He's a bit loose about that. He is saying that more in a kind of .. as he is thinking that it'll be ok. As in : "no formal decision made .. but I think it will be ok with them"
ok .. wait till the long awaited official statement will be out.
-
esavior
- Posts: 1211
- Joined: July 29th, 2003, 1:57 pm
- Contact:
_hb_ wrote:esavior wrote:So I guess he is saying that the Mozilla Foundation is okay with it and that it wasnt just a rogue act by MozEurope
He's a bit loose about that. He is saying that more in a kind of .. as he is thinking that it'll be ok. As in : "no formal decision made .. but I think it will be ok with them"
ok .. wait till the long awaited official statement will be out.
Ah cool. Yea I look forward to reading a official statement, hopefully its in english
Mindjunk
I didn't hear no bell...
I didn't hear no bell...
-
pariah
- Posts: 7
- Joined: November 17th, 2004, 5:27 am
esavior wrote:Thanks pariah/_hb_. So I guess he is saying that the Mozilla Foundation is okay with it and that it wasnt just a rogue act by MozEurope
Quite so. On the other hand, the MozPresident is still projecting a noticeably different position on this particular experiment, unless by "useful to people" she means "useful to our bank and some data-mining company in Switzerland".....
Mitchell Baker, Nov 8:
"We expect to see some funds come to the Foundation as a result of our integrated search."
[ http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitchell/ ]
Mitchell Baker, Nov 16, as quoted by Axel Hecht:
"We included the search plugin for ebay.de because we thought they would be useful to people. This was the only reason. "
[ http://firefox.stw.uni-duisburg.de/foru ... 669ad13816 ]
-
_hb_
- Posts: 28
- Joined: November 15th, 2004, 9:13 am
pariah wrote:Mitchell Baker, Nov 16, as quoted by Axel Hecht:
"We included the search plugin for ebay.de because we thought they would be useful to people. This was the only reason. "
[ http://firefox.stw.uni-duisburg.de/foru ... 669ad13816 ]
We included the search plugin for ebay.de
That looks a lot different to what they included ! What was included is this :
http://www.webtip.ch/cgi-bin/mozilla/tracker_qry_de.pl?
and this is forwarding to
http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/707-1170-3729-6?RedirectEnter&partner=32289&loc=http://search.ebay.de/search/search.dll?
and you see ... this links to ebay.de
See the difference ?
Perhaps she thought, it would be included as http://search.ebay.de/search/search.dll
wait and see
-
Chakka
- Posts: 6
- Joined: November 16th, 2004, 9:06 am
Changelog for localization
I followed the respective threads covering the - hm - German localization of Firefox and want to share some thoughts with you:
It came to my mind that it might be helpful to have some sort of changelog officially residing on the Mozilla.org page or some appropriated place on the net else.
For all localizations there c(sh)ould be documented e. g. all changes made in settings, links and whatever is different from the original version as a measure of meeting some quality standards and for further review.
IMHO that would help to restrict a discussion like that to the bare facts on one side and would prevent localization teams from long lasting labor of working on clarifying statements:-) in their valuable time.
What do you think about it?
Is there any specific information (couldn't find it) - should there be specific information?
Regards,
Chakka
It came to my mind that it might be helpful to have some sort of changelog officially residing on the Mozilla.org page or some appropriated place on the net else.
For all localizations there c(sh)ould be documented e. g. all changes made in settings, links and whatever is different from the original version as a measure of meeting some quality standards and for further review.
IMHO that would help to restrict a discussion like that to the bare facts on one side and would prevent localization teams from long lasting labor of working on clarifying statements:-) in their valuable time.
What do you think about it?
Is there any specific information (couldn't find it) - should there be specific information?
Regards,
Chakka
-
_hb_
- Posts: 28
- Joined: November 15th, 2004, 9:13 am
recent posting / explication by Axel Hecht
recent posting / explication by Axel Hecht at german firefox support forum :
http://firefox.stw.uni-duisburg.de/foru ... &start=240
as of now no translation in english.
To make a long story short :
They see now, that they've done a "bad" thing.
They ( eBay, Abdulkadir, Axel, Mitchell) have discussions and
are preparing a declaration and are testing technical solution
within the next 2 days.
http://firefox.stw.uni-duisburg.de/foru ... &start=240
as of now no translation in english.
To make a long story short :
They see now, that they've done a "bad" thing.
They ( eBay, Abdulkadir, Axel, Mitchell) have discussions and
are preparing a declaration and are testing technical solution
within the next 2 days.
-
pariah
- Posts: 7
- Joined: November 17th, 2004, 5:27 am
Progress:
Axel Hecht, Wed Nov 17, 2004 19:02, at
http://firefox.stw.uni-duisburg.de/foru ... &start=240 :
"[...] die Weiterleitung von webtip.ch direkt zu ebay.de auch so bleibt. Das Tracking über mediaplex ist also abgestellt."
Translation:
"[...] the redirect from webtip.ch direct to ebay.de remains in place. The tracking via mediaplex has therefore been halted. "
Presumably not just the tracking but also any exposure to extra ad servers.
Well done to Axel for responding and instigating some <I>((sounds good))</I> action. I'm looking forward to him or MozillaHQ in due course posting something for English-speakers regarding their policy and thinking on such matters.
I still don't think they quite understand why some of us are feeling so vehemently disappointed by this local experiment, and I wouldn't apologise for our vehemence, but/because things are looking up. In any event: thank you for that Axel.
Axel Hecht, Wed Nov 17, 2004 19:02, at
http://firefox.stw.uni-duisburg.de/foru ... &start=240 :
"[...] die Weiterleitung von webtip.ch direkt zu ebay.de auch so bleibt. Das Tracking über mediaplex ist also abgestellt."
Translation:
"[...] the redirect from webtip.ch direct to ebay.de remains in place. The tracking via mediaplex has therefore been halted. "
Presumably not just the tracking but also any exposure to extra ad servers.
Well done to Axel for responding and instigating some <I>((sounds good))</I> action. I'm looking forward to him or MozillaHQ in due course posting something for English-speakers regarding their policy and thinking on such matters.
I still don't think they quite understand why some of us are feeling so vehemently disappointed by this local experiment, and I wouldn't apologise for our vehemence, but/because things are looking up. In any event: thank you for that Axel.
-
pariah
- Posts: 7
- Joined: November 17th, 2004, 5:27 am
By the way: 23000 hits on this topic, over on the German Firefox forum at http://firefox.stw.uni-duisburg.de/forum/
That's how much vehemence it takes to make something happen. This topic looks to have become (in a <B>very</B> short space of time) the most-viewed item on the German forum - more viewed than update info, chitchat or even FAQs. People care about this stuff, Mitchell.
That's how much vehemence it takes to make something happen. This topic looks to have become (in a <B>very</B> short space of time) the most-viewed item on the German forum - more viewed than update info, chitchat or even FAQs. People care about this stuff, Mitchell.
-
guest123
- Posts: 300
- Joined: March 16th, 2004, 1:51 pm
I was scanning the computer with Ad-aware; I got the following adware in the computer:
Vendor:Tracking Cookie
Category:Data Miner
Object Type:File
Size:79 Bytes
Location:c:\...\owner\cookies\owner@mediaplex[2].txt
Last Activity:11-17-2004 7:38:57 PM
Risk LevelLow
Comment: Description:This cookie is known to collect information that may be used either for targeted advertising, or tracking users across a particular website, such as page views or ad click-thrus.
The cookie was planted by Mediaplex, the same company we are talking about in this thread, through whose site the e-bay ads were redirected!!!!!! ( I don't use the german version of firefox though, might have come from elsewhere; but this esthablishes the fact that Mediaplex is responsible for tracking cookies)
Vendor:Tracking Cookie
Category:Data Miner
Object Type:File
Size:79 Bytes
Location:c:\...\owner\cookies\owner@mediaplex[2].txt
Last Activity:11-17-2004 7:38:57 PM
Risk LevelLow
Comment: Description:This cookie is known to collect information that may be used either for targeted advertising, or tracking users across a particular website, such as page views or ad click-thrus.
The cookie was planted by Mediaplex, the same company we are talking about in this thread, through whose site the e-bay ads were redirected!!!!!! ( I don't use the german version of firefox though, might have come from elsewhere; but this esthablishes the fact that Mediaplex is responsible for tracking cookies)
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 Firefox/1.0.7
-
Umko
- Posts: 95
- Joined: June 18th, 2004, 11:52 am
- Location: Europe
the problem is not solved.
because the problem was not in the german release in itself (ebay.de messed it up really) but in the lack of information from the side of mozilla foundation.
they never told us that they are being paid for every search we do from the search box. and they never told us how much information do the respective firms get from us. this is what makes me feel bad.
we really need a sound explanation what is really going on with the preinstalled search plugins. this is bad management if you ask me, and i hope for a very fast and very good detailed explanation on the whole "pay-per-search" funding of the mozilla foundation to settle the whole thing.
the mozilla foundation will not ultimately succeed if it plays only the "superiority of firefox" card. every other aspect of the foundation has to brought to the level of professionalism of firefox.
because the problem was not in the german release in itself (ebay.de messed it up really) but in the lack of information from the side of mozilla foundation.
they never told us that they are being paid for every search we do from the search box. and they never told us how much information do the respective firms get from us. this is what makes me feel bad.
we really need a sound explanation what is really going on with the preinstalled search plugins. this is bad management if you ask me, and i hope for a very fast and very good detailed explanation on the whole "pay-per-search" funding of the mozilla foundation to settle the whole thing.
the mozilla foundation will not ultimately succeed if it plays only the "superiority of firefox" card. every other aspect of the foundation has to brought to the level of professionalism of firefox.