Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Firefox

Discussion of general topics about Mozilla Firefox
Kevin McFarlane
Posts: 597
Joined: November 10th, 2009, 3:47 am

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by Kevin McFarlane »

silvershoes wrote:There was a time, Frank, when I'd read a board and someone would complain and someone else would write back and say, "well you really ought to use Firefox, it's better."


I've never liked that kind of response. If I know of a solution (or an improvement) within the ecosystem of the product they're using I always recommend that first. I hang out in the Chrome forums and that's what I do there. I would only say "try Firefox" if, to the best of my knowledge, there was no solution within the Chrome ecosystem.
User avatar
Frank Lion
Posts: 21173
Joined: April 23rd, 2004, 6:59 pm
Location: ... The Exorcist....United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by Frank Lion »

JAB Creations wrote:Thanks for reinforcing my "magic bullet"...to your own foot, a screenshot of all nightly builds, because non-technical people on the web are really going to run nightly builds.

For a guy that tries to present himself here as a bit of a 'Firefox guru', you actually know damn all about Firefox, don't you?

How did you think that theme and extension authors version update the code in their stuff for the latest releases? Sit around like dummies waiting for the latest public release to come out? How did you think that they easily check the backwards compatibility of multiple Firefox versions? Ask around the forums?

The answer is here. They use zip builds that make no registry changes and those zip builds are only available as nightlies. That is how we can have 10+ versions of Firefox on the system and test with any version within seconds. That is how they know every single change that is made in every single Firefox version.

You think theme and extension authors would be doing that if those nightlies were not identical in functionality and features to the public releases that 'non-technical people on the web' will be using?

You know damn all.


http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1633/mozilla.gif
Frank Lion wrote:Your 'Firefox 3.6 setup for family and friends' needs looking at - the toolbar buttons on the Nav bar are stretched horizontally. Good job you don't make themes.

You know damn all about UI breaking. How can you put stuff out looking like that?


JAB Creations wrote:Does the average user know how to download an .XPI file, rename it to a ZIP, extract the RDF file, fix the maximum version string and then update Firefox because the extension author either did not bother or is simply too consumed to do that say, once every eight weeks?

You even know damn all about this basic Firefox stuff. To avoid the risk of compression corruption you don't rename stuff or extract and recompress!

Open .xpi/.jar with WinRar, do not extract. Double click install .rdf and edit with Notepad/Programmers Notepad and save changes. Winrar will ask if you want to update the .xpi/.jar with your changes, click OK and you're done.


Actually - http://www.jabcreations.com/home/?audio ... 1&sounds=1

...for a guy that talks a lot about 'clients' and 'web design', you might want to take a second look at your own site. Because you seem to know damn all about how to design a website as well.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)
.
User avatar
JAB Creations
Posts: 394
Joined: December 28th, 2003, 10:21 pm
Location: Sarasota Florida
Contact:

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by JAB Creations »

Did I say I knew all? No. I said I know what users want and I know how to deal with applications, files and operating systems in general though I'm not an extension author. That link looks useful for extension authors yes, though are all extension authors aware of it? Do all extension authors continue to support their extensions? Unfortunately for users who sometimes become engrossed with staying with older versions of Firefox no which means since their extensions aren't updated they in turn don't update Firefox.

I'm not sure if you understand or not that I want those people to be able to update to the latest stable builds, not sure why you're fighting me on all of this.

Frank Lion wrote:http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1633/mozilla.gif

You know damn all about UI breaking. How can you put stuff out looking like that?


Because not a single person has ever asked me how to find their downloads. Did I mention ever as in it's intuitive and say easy for people to just use Firefox after I've set it up for them? Yeah, that's why I have happy clients, family and friends after I fix their computers because I make them easy to use and the GUI remains consistent so they don't have to relearn to use something they already know how to use! Computers a hobby for you? It's not for them and I think you're failing to comprehend that. I'm guessing you use only keyboard shortcuts and would try to get an elderly person to do the same expecting them to remember if they asked you for help or will you relent and accept that you don't know all about design?

Sit someone who is computer illiterate and ask them how to click a single time to see the weather report, check their email, read the news or view their downloads. Now ask that same person to do the exact same thing on your copy of Firefox or the default copy of Firefox.I don't claim to know all but I'm damn good at what I do know. Still not sure why you insist on arguing with me when I am trying to help the community get people to update from Firefox 3.6 and older.

...and those extensions by the way work just fine for me for years.
Here to mostly fix the browser's broken GUI. I maintain the Fixed Firefox website to share the things I've confirmed work.
User avatar
Frank Lion
Posts: 21173
Joined: April 23rd, 2004, 6:59 pm
Location: ... The Exorcist....United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by Frank Lion »

JAB Creations wrote:
Frank Lion wrote:http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1633/mozilla.gif

You know damn all about UI breaking. How can you put stuff out looking like that?

Because not a single person has ever asked me how to find their downloads. Did I men


Try not skim reading and there is a remote chance that you might make less of a fool of yourself -

Frank Lion wrote:http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1633/mozilla.gif
Frank Lion wrote:Your 'Firefox 3.6 setup for family and friends' needs looking at - the toolbar buttons on the Nav bar are stretched horizontally. Good job you don't make themes.

You know damn all about UI breaking. How can you put stuff out looking like that?



I'm guessing you use only keyboard shortcuts and would try to get an eld

You guess wrong.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)
.
User avatar
JAB Creations
Posts: 394
Joined: December 28th, 2003, 10:21 pm
Location: Sarasota Florida
Contact:

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by JAB Creations »

You use XP like me.

You use and promote Firefox like me.

You say you don't use just keyboard shortcuts like me.

I imagine since you use nightly builds that you agree with the notion that you don't want to see people sticking with older versions of Firefox.

You even have a quote that is in my personal collection for goodness sakes.

So you continue to attack me and try to thwart my thread by going off-topic. What is your damage Frank?
Here to mostly fix the browser's broken GUI. I maintain the Fixed Firefox website to share the things I've confirmed work.
User avatar
LoudNoise
New Member
Posts: 39900
Joined: October 18th, 2007, 1:45 pm
Location: Next door to the west

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by LoudNoise »

Image
Post wrangler
"Choose between the Food Select Feature or other Functions. If no food or function is chosen, Toast is the default."
User avatar
Frank Lion
Posts: 21173
Joined: April 23rd, 2004, 6:59 pm
Location: ... The Exorcist....United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by Frank Lion »

JAB Creations wrote:So you continue to attack me..

Probably best if you don't go down that route. ;)

JAB Creations wrote:... because I don't think everyone at Mozilla Corporate is on drugs, just the ones forcing the bad decisions down everyone else's throats.


I don't see the problems that you obviously do. I only ever see solutions.

Right click any toolbar - uncheck Tabs on Top, check Menubar and Bookmarks Toolbar. Select 'Customize' and drag any stuff that has moved from the previous version to where you want it. Close Customize Window. The following took me less than 2 minutes to get looking as it is and the last user I helped was yesterday and is 84 years old.


Image
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)
.
User avatar
JAB Creations
Posts: 394
Joined: December 28th, 2003, 10:21 pm
Location: Sarasota Florida
Contact:

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by JAB Creations »

Frank Lion wrote:I don't see the problems that you obviously do. I only ever see solutions.


Suggesting something is a solution inherently suggests there is a problem.

So what are these solutions you feel will encourage people using older versions of Firefox to upgrade?
Last edited by Daifne on December 4th, 2011, 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed unnecessary formatting
Here to mostly fix the browser's broken GUI. I maintain the Fixed Firefox website to share the things I've confirmed work.
User avatar
Frank Lion
Posts: 21173
Joined: April 23rd, 2004, 6:59 pm
Location: ... The Exorcist....United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by Frank Lion »

JAB Creations wrote:Suggesting something is a solution inherently suggests there is a problem.

It also inherently suggests that a problem is solvable and I outlined one easily understandable solution above.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)
.
User avatar
LoudNoise
New Member
Posts: 39900
Joined: October 18th, 2007, 1:45 pm
Location: Next door to the west

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by LoudNoise »

Suggesting something is a solution inherently suggests there is a problem.


Not really. It merely suggest there is a difference of opinion on how the UI should look. One of my sisters loves the new look, another doesn't. Both are now happy.
Post wrangler
"Choose between the Food Select Feature or other Functions. If no food or function is chosen, Toast is the default."
User avatar
JAB Creations
Posts: 394
Joined: December 28th, 2003, 10:21 pm
Location: Sarasota Florida
Contact:

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by JAB Creations »

Frank, are you suggesting that Mozilla display the buttons on the toolbars roughly like I have or are you suggesting that people do that on their own? If the later the problem is that they are almost always never aware just like the people blindly doing installations without choosing customize and ending up with Chrome on their systems as default browsers.

LoudNoise, one of the issues is that people aren't aware of features. There was an issue out about people scanning entire pages because they weren't aware of CTRL + F keyboard shortcut.

My point is simple in regards to the GUI, show those options by default with friendly icons and text labels (it's a minor debate whether it should be icons above or to the left). If someone doesn't like it then like Frank suggested it only takes a short time to remove those from the GUI.

It's not the only issue...Mozilla moving items around (overriding existing preferences) and overbearingly frequent updates are as well.
Last edited by Daifne on December 4th, 2011, 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed unnecessary formatting
Here to mostly fix the browser's broken GUI. I maintain the Fixed Firefox website to share the things I've confirmed work.
User avatar
malliz
Folder@Home
Posts: 43796
Joined: December 7th, 2002, 4:34 am
Location: Australia

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by malliz »

People who resort to yelling to try to make a point have lost the argument already
What sort of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.
"Terry Pratchett"
User avatar
JAB Creations
Posts: 394
Joined: December 28th, 2003, 10:21 pm
Location: Sarasota Florida
Contact:

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by JAB Creations »

malliz wrote:People who resort to yelling to try to make a point have lost the argument already


As far as I can tell no one here has used all capitalized letters.
Last edited by Daifne on December 4th, 2011, 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed unnecessary formatting
Here to mostly fix the browser's broken GUI. I maintain the Fixed Firefox website to share the things I've confirmed work.
User avatar
malliz
Folder@Home
Posts: 43796
Joined: December 7th, 2002, 4:34 am
Location: Australia

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by malliz »

Thanks for making my point :) Its even more obvious now :-"
What sort of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.
"Terry Pratchett"
User avatar
JAB Creations
Posts: 394
Joined: December 28th, 2003, 10:21 pm
Location: Sarasota Florida
Contact:

Re: Why people won't upgrade & why I am starting to hate Fir

Post by JAB Creations »

The point of this thread is to help Firefox and Firefox users. I had a feeling you were referring to the tiny default font-size for the site. That's not your point however, mocking me seems to delight you at the expense of having an objective and productive conversation. Not everyone enjoys looking at large screens with tiny unreadable font-size 12 text and lots of wasted whitespace. Please either make an honest effort at contributing to the conversation or go elsewhere.
Last edited by DanRaisch on December 4th, 2011, 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Font sizing removed to improve readability.
Here to mostly fix the browser's broken GUI. I maintain the Fixed Firefox website to share the things I've confirmed work.
Locked