FF 13 and non-Roman fonts (Myanmar)
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: June 13th, 2012, 2:16 pm
FF 13 and non-Roman fonts (Myanmar)
FF used to be such a good browser with non-Roman fonts; it found cleverly all the characters from any fonts for a certain Unicode codepoint, if the default font did not have it. FF 13 does not seem to be so flexible any more. I first noticed that some arrows created extra whitespace below and above the line, making the page ugly. Looking with fontinfo appl. it was Cambria Math that caused these extra spaces. The same symbols looked nice in the previous version and look also nice in IE.
More irritating is that when I try to see pages in Burmese, only squares with Unicode codes show up (see http://www.voanews.com/burmese/news/, image 1). This is when no font is hinted in the HTML or .css. Fontinfo tells me the browser attempts to use either Times New Roman or Arial for these codes! When the font IS hinted, like in the Burmese-edition of Wikipedia, everything else gets ugly (see http://my.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%80%99%E1%80%BC%E1%80%94%E1%80%BA%E1%80%99%E1%80%AC%E1%80%95%E1%80%BC%E1%80%8A%E1%80%BA, image 2, see the menu on the left).
I am not sure why this has happened; everything seemed nice in the previous edition. IE does not have this problem, nor does Chrome. (But Chrome does not show Malayalam..) My Burmese font is Padauk.
Image 1: http://www.eki.ee/wgrs/img/voa_burmese.jpg
Image 2: http://www.eki.ee/wgrs/img/wikipedia_burmese.jpg
More irritating is that when I try to see pages in Burmese, only squares with Unicode codes show up (see http://www.voanews.com/burmese/news/, image 1). This is when no font is hinted in the HTML or .css. Fontinfo tells me the browser attempts to use either Times New Roman or Arial for these codes! When the font IS hinted, like in the Burmese-edition of Wikipedia, everything else gets ugly (see http://my.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%80%99%E1%80%BC%E1%80%94%E1%80%BA%E1%80%99%E1%80%AC%E1%80%95%E1%80%BC%E1%80%8A%E1%80%BA, image 2, see the menu on the left).
I am not sure why this has happened; everything seemed nice in the previous edition. IE does not have this problem, nor does Chrome. (But Chrome does not show Malayalam..) My Burmese font is Padauk.
Image 1: http://www.eki.ee/wgrs/img/voa_burmese.jpg
Image 2: http://www.eki.ee/wgrs/img/wikipedia_burmese.jpg
Last edited by DanRaisch on May 23rd, 2017, 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Image tags removed to restore page formatting.
Reason: Image tags removed to restore page formatting.
- Gingerbread Man
- Posts: 7735
- Joined: January 30th, 2007, 10:55 am
Re: FF 13 and non-Roman fonts (Myanmar)
ppall wrote:http://www.voanews.com/burmese/news/
That site recommends the Zawgyi-One font, which is not Unicode-compliant (Myanmar Fonts which follow Unicode rules). If you have it installed, you may need to delete it before proceeding with the steps below.
- Open the Options window by choosing the respective menu item from the Firefox button or the Tools menu.
- Click the Content icon at the top.
- Below “Fonts & Colors”, click the Advanced button.
- Next to “Fonts for” choose Other Languages.
- Set “Proportional” to Sans Serif.
- Set “Sans-serif” to Padauk.
- Click the OK button.
- Click the OK button.
ppall wrote:Fontinfo tells me the browser attempts to use either Times New Roman or Arial for these codes!
The site tells the browser to use
- Zawgyi-One — not a Unicode font.
- Arial — lacks the required glyphs.
- Helvetica — lacks the required glyphs; not installed by default on Windows.
- sans-serif — probably Arial.
I don't know why Firefox can't find an appropriate font even though none was specified. Maybe file a bug report if one doesn't already exist.
developer.mozilla.org/en/Bug_Writing_Guidelines
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- Posts: 940
- Joined: February 21st, 2011, 10:14 am
Re: FF 13 and non-Roman fonts (Myanmar)
The change about font fallbacks is to speed up Firefox's startup progress.
Is it what it's supposed to look like with Padauk?
If Gingerbread Man's method does not work, try this (kudos to Groovy Gregor):
1. Go to about:config.
2. Search for font.name-list.serif.x-unicode. If you cannot find one, create a string with this name.
3. As for the Value, enter Padauk.
Switch back to VoA page and it should display correctly. The tab title will display correctly after a browser restart. However, the tab title on Windows' taskbar still shows squares. I do not know if it's a Firefox's or Windows' problem.
If the above does not work, try modifying font.name-list.san-serif.x-unicode instead.
p.s. You can add other fonts which you need to use in Firefox to the lists.
As for the wiki page, are you using Padauk in the menu (before you apply the above fix)?
If not, see what happens if you disable hardware acceleration in Firefox. If it displays correctly without HWA, It should be a font bug with DirectWrite instead of Firefox's.
Here (page in Chinese) is a similar issue with a Chinese font displaying Korean under DiretWrite. See the 2nd line of both screenshots.
The characters below Bosanski do not show because Padauk does not have the glyphs for those characters.
Large whitespace issue is bug 739804, which is also a regression by the new fallback system.
Is it what it's supposed to look like with Padauk?
If Gingerbread Man's method does not work, try this (kudos to Groovy Gregor):
1. Go to about:config.
2. Search for font.name-list.serif.x-unicode. If you cannot find one, create a string with this name.
3. As for the Value, enter Padauk.
Switch back to VoA page and it should display correctly. The tab title will display correctly after a browser restart. However, the tab title on Windows' taskbar still shows squares. I do not know if it's a Firefox's or Windows' problem.
If the above does not work, try modifying font.name-list.san-serif.x-unicode instead.
p.s. You can add other fonts which you need to use in Firefox to the lists.
As for the wiki page, are you using Padauk in the menu (before you apply the above fix)?
If not, see what happens if you disable hardware acceleration in Firefox. If it displays correctly without HWA, It should be a font bug with DirectWrite instead of Firefox's.
Here (page in Chinese) is a similar issue with a Chinese font displaying Korean under DiretWrite. See the 2nd line of both screenshots.
The characters below Bosanski do not show because Padauk does not have the glyphs for those characters.
Large whitespace issue is bug 739804, which is also a regression by the new fallback system.
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: June 13th, 2012, 2:16 pm
Re: FF 13 and non-Roman fonts (Myanmar)
Many thanks for all advice. I have to say that I am not a Burmese reader, but maintain a site with multiple non-Roman pages. I would like to see simple Burmese characters with plain text. Unfortunately it is not so, see http://www.eki.ee/wgrs/rom2_my.htm:
http://www.eki.ee/wgrs/img/wgrs_burmese_ff.jpg
It seems to be some bug. Interestingly, I can see Burmese fonts with FF 13 in my office computer which runs Windows Vista, but the same is not true in my laptop with Windows 7. However, both versions, when prompted to use Padauk or any other fonts, fail to show Roman script properly, compare the Burmese Wikipedia article on Myanmar in FF and IE:
Firefox: http://www.eki.ee/wgrs/img/wiki_burmese_ff.jpg
Internet Explorer: http://www.eki.ee/wgrs/img/wiki_burmese_ie.jpg
Under FF the Roman letters are stacked together, while IE shows them properly.
Hopefully it will be fixed in the next edition of FF.. Thanks again.
http://www.eki.ee/wgrs/img/wgrs_burmese_ff.jpg
It seems to be some bug. Interestingly, I can see Burmese fonts with FF 13 in my office computer which runs Windows Vista, but the same is not true in my laptop with Windows 7. However, both versions, when prompted to use Padauk or any other fonts, fail to show Roman script properly, compare the Burmese Wikipedia article on Myanmar in FF and IE:
Firefox: http://www.eki.ee/wgrs/img/wiki_burmese_ff.jpg
Internet Explorer: http://www.eki.ee/wgrs/img/wiki_burmese_ie.jpg
Under FF the Roman letters are stacked together, while IE shows them properly.
Hopefully it will be fixed in the next edition of FF.. Thanks again.
Last edited by DanRaisch on May 23rd, 2017, 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Image tags removed to restore page formatting.
Reason: Image tags removed to restore page formatting.
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- Posts: 940
- Joined: February 21st, 2011, 10:14 am
Re: FF 13 and non-Roman fonts (Myanmar)
I can now reproduce the corrupted roman characters in Firefox 13 but not in Nightly (16). Perhaps it is fixed in a later version. Interestingly, Chrome 19 has a similar problem.
As for the first question, I don't know about writing a webpage, but I guess you have to explicitly specify the fonts used in the source code.
As for the first question, I don't know about writing a webpage, but I guess you have to explicitly specify the fonts used in the source code.
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: June 13th, 2012, 2:16 pm
Re: FF 13 and non-Roman fonts (Myanmar)
Thank you for this suggestion. The purpose of the files I am compiling with non-Roman fonts is that these could be copied into other word-processing applications, e.g. for translation into other languages. So they should stay clear of any forced fonts.
If a newer version of FF (Nightly) seems to solve the issue of Roman script with Padauk, perhaps so will my main issue be solved..
If a newer version of FF (Nightly) seems to solve the issue of Roman script with Padauk, perhaps so will my main issue be solved..
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: June 13th, 2012, 2:16 pm
Re: FF 13 and non-Roman fonts (Myanmar)
I am complaining once again about font displaying problems. Burmese script is again squares (FF 53.0.3, Windows 7). For some years there were no problems in displaying whatever fonts. Now again, and starting in safe mode does not help this time. I cannot see Coptic script either which was the same last time.
When checking pages with Burmese text, it appears that the browser attempts to display the text using default font for Latin script, and naturally fails in it.
When checking pages with Burmese text, it appears that the browser attempts to display the text using default font for Latin script, and naturally fails in it.
- Grumpus
- Posts: 13240
- Joined: October 19th, 2007, 4:23 am
- Location: ... Da' Swamp
Re: FF 13 and non-Roman fonts (Myanmar)
@ppall - Though this link is for SeaMonkey I have applied some of the principles to current Firefox versionsForeign characters
Maybe some guidance can be found in the discussion for you.
Maybe some guidance can be found in the discussion for you.
Doesn't matter what you say, it's wrong for a toaster to walk around the house and talk to you
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: June 13th, 2012, 2:16 pm
Re: FF 13 and non-Roman fonts (Myanmar)
Many thanks, I'll take a look. In general I believe Firefox should be able to display all non-Latin fonts properly without any additional trouble. Strangely it seems this bug applies only to Firefox in Windows 7. I have tested Firefox in Windows 10 and, yes, even Windows XP, and there it works properly. And only a few updates back FF in Windows 7 worked properly.
I should add that squares appear not only for Burmese and Coptic but even for Latin 'upper' encodings, e.g. I see squares for U+A273 in Pꜣ-tꜣ-n-Wꜣḏet (and even Google Chrome in my version is not capable of showing it; it displays Burmese but not Coptic). It seems that some Unicode ranges are simply 'banned' in certain versions.
I should add that squares appear not only for Burmese and Coptic but even for Latin 'upper' encodings, e.g. I see squares for U+A273 in Pꜣ-tꜣ-n-Wꜣḏet (and even Google Chrome in my version is not capable of showing it; it displays Burmese but not Coptic). It seems that some Unicode ranges are simply 'banned' in certain versions.
- Grumpus
- Posts: 13240
- Joined: October 19th, 2007, 4:23 am
- Location: ... Da' Swamp
Re: FF 13 and non-Roman fonts (Myanmar)
These fonts are blacklisted in about:config: FangSong,Gulim,GulimChe,MingLiU,MingLiU-ExtB,MingLiU_HKSCS,MingLiU-HKSCS-ExtB,MS Gothic,MS Mincho,MS PGothic,MS PMincho,MS UI Gothic,PMingLiU,PMingLiU-ExtB,SimHei,SimSun,SimSun-ExtB,Hei,Kai,Apple LiGothic,Apple LiSung,Osaka
In checking Coptic does not appear to be blacklisted ꉳ <--this is U+A273 and it is displayed properly in this text entry and preview.
Also shows up in the final post. You may need to update your font or see if it is still system readable.
Make sure you check the changes mentioned in the link posted about changes in about:config for character encoding and see if that changes anything before any font update.
In checking Coptic does not appear to be blacklisted ꉳ <--this is U+A273 and it is displayed properly in this text entry and preview.
Also shows up in the final post. You may need to update your font or see if it is still system readable.
Make sure you check the changes mentioned in the link posted about changes in about:config for character encoding and see if that changes anything before any font update.
Doesn't matter what you say, it's wrong for a toaster to walk around the house and talk to you
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: June 13th, 2012, 2:16 pm
Re: FF 13 and non-Roman fonts (Myanmar)
Burmese and Coptic fonts are not in the list. It is strange that some time ago everything worked properly. I can "see" the U+A273 also but in other applications, like BabelPad or Word, so the problem should not be in fonts. I am beginning to wonder if it has something to do with general updates, because Coptic does not show in any browser I have (IE, FF, Chrome), nor the U+A273. Perhaps anybody with similar OS (Windows 7 PC) could check it?
- Grumpus
- Posts: 13240
- Joined: October 19th, 2007, 4:23 am
- Location: ... Da' Swamp
Re: FF 13 and non-Roman fonts (Myanmar)
If you tried some or all of the changes and the font still does not appear maybe try this list if items from a Google search for MS support of unicode.
I searched for Coptic as a guide. MS Unicode support for Coptic
Can't help further with MS, do not use it.
I searched for Coptic as a guide. MS Unicode support for Coptic
Can't help further with MS, do not use it.
Doesn't matter what you say, it's wrong for a toaster to walk around the house and talk to you