What would happen to non-WebExtensions after FX 57 released?

[Frank Lion]

Language packs, dictionaries, OpenSearch providers, lightweight themes, and add-ons that only support Thunderbird or SeaMonkey aren’t considered legacy.

Good job you found that!

My SM and T/Bird themes are Type 32s (multi package install) not the usual Type=4 and that's because to do the content scrolls I had to bundle them in an extension and that's because at the time Mozilla decided that themes couldn't use the override command in chrome.manifest, but extensions can. However, upload them and the validator complains that the extensions are not signed, even though they don't need to be for SM and T/Bird, that's because the validator on AMO is totally ******. Am I boring anyone? The way around it, after talking with Jorge, is to add Firefox to the install.rdfs of the scrolls extensions and get them signed, even though they didn't need to be.

Looking at the above, I reckon come 53 those scroll extensions are going to blow up and reject, just because they include compat for Firefox.

'Luckily' override is now accepted in chrome.manifest for themes, so the solution will be to use it, add scrollbars.css to the theme and ditch the scroll extensions completely and swing to Type=4 only themes and upload. Sorted.

As you can see, unlike AMO, the Frank House does indeed run like a fine tuned machine.



Edit (46 minutes after above post) - both themes now done, both are now totally independent of Firefox and both have been uploaded to AMO and are 'awaiting review'.

Yeah, this has been a glimpse of what a real themer does - yep, we do work quick, yep, the stuff is pretty complicated, but that's half the fun...and, yep, it did annoy Complete Theme writers for 5 minutes when Mozilla called Personas 'themes' (I can make one from start to finish in 10 minutes) and called the guys who churned them out, 'themers'.

But, once you realise that Mozilla were deliberately trying to annoy us by doing that...it no longer was annoying and we knew all along what a real theme author is anyway.

[Grumpus]

I'm struggling to figure out how this post relates to this thread.

The discussion is on the loss and possible maintaining some sort of control over the browser as had been in the past.
It seems from pretty much what I've been readin here and on Line this is not all that accepted by a large if not the majority of the users or developers of Firefox and my post was how this appears to be unfolding and what appears to be a general disregard by the decision makers at Mozilla and a somewhat gping along with a philosophy they had disliked in the past, maybe I'm wrong.

@Mightyglydd - Folding proteins is what the Folding thread is about.
I did hesitate posting the Nova link but thought it might be nice to see something which was productive from another slant.
The show on PBS/Nova and the link provided seemed to be in line with the thread.
I'm really starting to think you're channeling Jack at this point.

[celtic_superhero]

https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2017/02 ... ent-223542

Firefox UI customisation is more or less done. So much to the promised equal replacements...

[Frank Lion]

https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2017/02 ... ent-223542

Firefox UI customisation is more or less done. So much to the promised equal replacements...

I feel sorry for Jorge having to Kellyanne this stuff for Mozilla on AMO.

I seem to recall that he's made 5 or 6 extensions for Firefox himself.

[celtic_superhero]

Frank, the root of Mozilla's issue is also something like that as i tend to believe.

They try since the start to break the dominance of large big companies. They faced internet explorer and delivered a nice feture set which makes that annoying browser shallow and undesirable. They started to fight Google too, but the old concept was somehow failing, and if you can't beat your enemy with special tools you are inventing, another concept is to beat them in becoming like them only better. But we know it does not work that way and Mozilla which had earlier a respected number of users is losing them with their gambling. which leads them to abandon us users who want more from a software than a simple single usage reason. It feels rather shallow to realize that we users are only a replacable tool for Mozilla, they supported as until we have not been of use anymore. They are on a crusade they are going to lose.

History has showed it that crusades never will lead to success. We had already crusaders being beaten up for being ignorant and power hungry. And that's what Mozilla is facing now too. They are crusaders on a holy war for influence and breaking the dominance of Google Chrome. But when that means it is necessary to burn your own roots in this (already lost) fight fight, there never was a chance to win at all right from start.

We have seen that in human history countless of times already. Power and influence driven crusades never will lead to success. We had a religon crusade which failed. We had during WWII a crusade and it (luckily) failed. And Mozilla still believes...

[frg]

Frank:

> So why is the first I hear of this from someone 'not involved in this'?

Came up during the last two status meetings. Ratty and IanN will meet with the AMO people.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/Stat ... y_Tracking

> Seriously, and I don't mean to be harsh, by why do Open Source projects continually bang on about 'community',
> when they never reach out and ask the damn community anything?

Probably because usually the community responds with utter silence or just a demand to know when the next version will be released. As you can see here looking at some threads

> I despair of you guys sometimes.

I wouldn't but you should contact Ratty or IanN in this case.

FRG

[Frank Lion]

Came up during the last two status meetings. Ratty and IanN will meet with the AMO people.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/Stat ... y_Tracking

Thanks, but like many people, I don't follow that stuff.

There is something truly odd about the software business, that you just don't see anywhere else, and I've seen it in every Linux distro and with Mozilla and others...and that is this bizarre belief that the world revolves around them and that others follow their every move. They just don't and I think a Mr A. Hitler summed up this trait best - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq8s-Rubs5w

> Seriously, and I don't mean to be harsh, by why do Open Source projects continually bang on about 'community',
> when they never reach out and ask the damn community anything?

Probably because usually the community responds with utter silence or just a demand to know when the next version will be released. As you can see here looking at some threads

Yep, a point I mentioned here - http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic ... #p14733332

I should also add that anyone in their right mind, or in the military, knows that you never, ever volunteer for anything. At least when they ask, or order, you to do something then you know exactly what it is they want. Volunteering is an open-ended invitation for any ill thought out whim that takes their fancy....and if you refuse? 'Well, you did say you'd volunteer....'

Me no silly.

... but you should contact Ratty or IanN in this case.

You mean like, er, volunteer?

[frg]

>> You mean like, er, volunteer?

You could call it fatherly advice.

FRG

[Drumbrake]

https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2017/02 ... ent-223542

Firefox UI customisation is more or less done. So much to the promised equal replacements...

I feel sorry for Jorge having to Kellyanne this stuff for Mozilla on AMO.

I seem to recall that he's made 5 or 6 extensions for Firefox himself.

Really, that's sad.

I've gone trough that page and -for the most part- people expressing their anger and delusion are not the so called usual "whiners", but rather competent and skilled enough oldtimers and extension developers who just can't recognize anymore what Firefox is going to be when this webextension crap thing finally hits the fan.

Sure enough there's also the occasional volunteer fanboy (or paid troll) that claims everything is/will be okay, better than it was before, but that's just to be expected nowadays.

What's really sad is watching a Firefox developer who can't just possibly ignore how great Firefox has been and how useless is going to become, stating that the timing is bad but nonetheless this has to be done now, no matter how big the wreckage that it's going to cause.

This really is a big blow,I reckon we complained a lot here (I mean, really a lot) when Australis landed, but that was nothing compared to what is likely going to happen with webextensions : corporate slogans aside, it becomes clearer by the day that many extensions will be either abandoned or ruined for good by this weaker API - starting with the very extension that has made Firefox still usable for many of us after Australis, namely Classic Theme Restorer.

Furthermore, all this is being handled so badly, leaving many folks asking for clarifications without a proper answer, dismissing the requests for additional APIs able to restore the lost functionality, generally showing a lack of interest (if not real contempt) for the many useful (and unique to Firefox) addons that we are going to lose.

It could have been done differently, with a less inopportune timing and carefully preparing the groundwork to port all addons to the new API, or even allowing for the coexistence of XUL-based addons and webextensions with some shim of sort - but they really look eager, too eager shall I say, to get this thing rolling.
It looks staged to me, like there was a plan to shift Firefox in a new direction, for which they had to shake off the burden of all these extensions.

[Frank Lion]

>> You mean like, er, volunteer?

You could call it fatherly advice.

I'll run the idea past my guys, shouldn't be a problem, even with T/bird stuff you're looking at only 2,000 extensions and themes. They won't Admin it though, I can tell you that now.

... but you should contact Ratty or IanN in this case.

Would help if I knew who or what a 'Ratty' and an 'IanN' are and where their contact details are to be found.

[barbaz]

Would help if I knew who or what a 'Ratty' and an 'IanN' are and where their contact details are to be found.

Ratty = http://forums.mozillazine.org/memberlis ... e&u=121979 (or "RattyAway" on irc #seamonkey)

IanN can also be found on irc #seamonkey. I don't know whether he has a mozillaZine account.

[Frank Lion]

IanN can also be found on irc #seamonkey.

Pity I don't use irc then....and nor does anyone else who is not 'really geeky'.

Someone let me know when these guys join the real world and use Email or Gmail, like everyone else.

Btw Phil Chee has only posted here twice in the last 18 months.