Which legacy addons do you miss?

[charscot]

The one I would miss (I am running multiple FF versions at present) has not worked in a long time Cooliris (bought by Yahoo and then discarded). Never found anything that works anywhere near as well (and in 57 can't find anything that is even trying to replicate it's behaviour of previewing links).

The other two are Tab Mix Plus and CTR. Never realised just how important they were to my use of ff until I tried to use 57 without them. Everything I have taken for granted as "just working" at a pace that saves time has gone for now. Just hoping that as time passes more of the features I miss become available in 57. I doubt they will, considering how long developers have had to prepare for quantum, not to mention the restrictions that prevent some aspects being accessible to be altered.

[Tony-E]

The one I thought I would miss was Tab Mix Plus, though in the end I did not need a replacement add-on as I could do nearly everything I needed using built-in options. Just 1 minor feature that I used that is not possible in Firefox 57 (ability to select tabs by hovering over them)

[malliz]

Bloodeyes LCD Clock

[charscot]

Just 1 minor feature that I used that is not possible in Firefox 57 (ability to select tabs by hovering over them)

Must say that was a major aspect of TMP I was thinking of when posting. Find it very irritating, and time consuming, having to click every time when switching tabs. It's the little things like that that soon add up to a lot more wasted time.

Still hoping there will be css to make that possible.

[Diorser]

Scrapbook
https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/scrapbook/

[Sugoi]

"Googelbar Lite" or "SearchWP" as they made it possible to search for text or rather all single words entered in the search bar and highlight them with different colors.

I know there is the "Ctrl + F" function. But it's not nearly as extensive and convenient, unfortunately.

[Cheekeh Munkeh]

Download Status Bar

It's the only one I really miss, and desire something better than the about:downloads workaround I'm relying on.

For everything else, I've either learned to adapt (S4E) or have found a substitute.

Otherwise, 57 is working well for me.

[PrimusUltimo]

Classic Theme Restorer

I find that things can go very wrong, when people confuse "change" with "progress". Unfortunately, that's an expanding and accelerating trend, and even Mozilla has fallen victim to it. Classic Theme Restorer was my chosen antidote to the worst of it. For example, the way I used the search bar, the new design required a lot more back and forth between keyboard and mouse. So much that it became less efficient than simply having an open tab for each search engine.

In the early years, software developed a series of UI conventions, based purely on maximum functionality. They were generally the same across programs, and, in some cases, even across platforms. Every once in a while, someone came up with something new that actually improved functionality. It was a gradual improvement, where change was resisted, unless there was a specific and clear purpose to it. Creativity had to work within the bounds of practicality. Of course, this sensible approach has been loosing ground for a long time, now. The new thing with FF57 is that they've killed off the flexibility that has allowed users with an actual need for optimized functionality to opt out of the least sensible changes.

Renewal is often good. The wheel has been renewed many times. Spokes were introduced. Steel rims. Rubber rims. Inflatable tires. All good. Even reinvention can be good. However, reinvention of the basic shape of the wheel is never good. While some will always be impressed by the fresh, new design of a pentagonal wheel, and even be sufficiently slave to fashion to actually drive around on them, phasing out round wheels is still a massively bad idea. I would very much like to see the designers at Mozilla (and elsewhere) learn to distinguish between real progress and massively bad ideas.

As it is, FF57 looks very good, and there are several improvements in the engine. Those with irresistible urges to impulsively install dubious add-ons are safer from those urges than they once were. Most of this, if not all, could've been accomplished without gutting the functionality for those who want and need it. It would, however, have required a more cautious and considered approach, and more respect for the fact that UI conventions, almost always become that for good reasons.

[dmccunney]

I have Firefox ESR as production browser, because I have about 40 "legacy" extensions that stopped working in FF 57. I have Firefox 57 and Developer Edition using a separate profile to track progress on WebExtension equivalents of what I run in ESR.

In ESR, the list is

Code: Select all

Application: Firefox 52.5.0 (20171107091003)
Operating System: WINNT (x86_64-msvc)

- 404 Bookmarks 1.5
- Add-ons Manager Context Menu 0.4.2.1-signed.1-signed
- Addons Manager Hilite 3.0
- Application Update Service Helper 2.0
- Beyond Australis 1.4.8
* Bookmarks Organizer 1.3.0
- checkCompatibility 1.3.1-signed.1-signed
- Classic Theme Restorer 1.7.3.1
- Compact Menu 2 4.3.1.1-signed.1-signed
- Dict 0.8.5
- Download Manager Tweak 1.0.12
- Error 404 Wayback Machine 1.2
- Extension List Dumper 2 1.0.2
- FindBar Tweak 2.1.12
* Flagfox 5.2.3
- GhostText 17.10.25.1400
- History Submenus II 4.1.1
- Image Zoom (ugly fixes) 0.1.1
- image-resizer 1.7.1
- Imagus 0.9.8.58
* It's All Text! 1.9.3
- Location Bar Enhancer 5.3
- Multi-process staged rollout 1.10
- Neo Diggler 1.0.7
- OmniSidebar 1.6.15
* Open Google Contacts in a new tab 1.0.2
- Password Exporter 1.3.4
- Pocket 1.0.5
- Puzzle Bars 2.1.17
- Save File to 2.5.5
- Save Text Area 0.4.7.1-signed.1-signed
- Saved Password Editor 2.10.4
* Session Manager 0.8.1.13
* Speed Dial 0.9.6.18
* Stylish - Custom themes for any website 3.0.1
- Tab Memory Usage 0.2.7
* Tab Mix Plus 0.5.0.4
* Textarea Cache 0.9.3.4
* uBlock Origin 1.14.18
* Viewhance 2017.917.1405
- Web Compat 1.0

(Extensions in the list with a complete or partial replacement have * as the first char on the line.)

Things have progressed to the point where FF 57 is usable for me, though there is still a way to go.

Going through the ones mentioned above

* Bookmarks Organizer 1.3.0 has a WebEx replacement

* Flagfox 5.2.3 has a WebEx equivalent called Country Flags and IP WhoIs

* It's All Text" has a WebEx replacement called withExEditor, but setup and configuration are non-trivial. You must install and configure node.js to provide a host which can communicate with the Internet. withExEditor uses that, and you must configure it to specify the local editor you wish to use.

* Open Google Contacts in a new tab 1.0.2 has a WebEx replacement

* Session Manager 0.8.1.13 has a WebEx replacement called MySessions

* Speed Dial 0.9.6.18 has a WebEx replacement called Group Speed Dial, which can import saved Speed Dial settings as a base for configuration. It has problems with Mozilla about: addresses so I dropped those dials, but the rest work.

* Stylish - Custom themes for any website 3.0.1 Stylish has a WebEx rewrite, and thre's another called Stylus. Both will install and use styles from UserStyles.org, but it's no longer possible to style Firefox itself with them.

* Tab Mix Plus 0.5.0.4 has no rewrite, and IIRC, won't get one. To replace functionality, I use FoxyTabs (which adds a Close Tabs to the Left function,) turned on a couple of preferences in about:config that force things to open in new tabs, and open new tabs next to the current one I'm in, and Undo Close Tab button, which provides a list of previously closed tabs that can be reopened. It's not ideal, but I can live with it.

* Textarea Cache 0.9.3.4 has a WebEx rewrite.

* uBlock Origin 1.14.18 has a WebEx rewrite

* Viewhance 2017.917.1405 has a WebEx rewrite

There is apparently a WebEx version of NoScript now, but I stopped running it a while back. uBlock Origin provides the basic blocking I need, and the maintenance required to whitelist various sites in both uBlock and NoScript so they would work as expected became more work than I wanted to do. (Some big commercial sites may source content from or link to over 30 external sites.) I am not fanatical about block ads and have layered defenses so I'm not paranoid about scripting.)

I do miss being able to style the browser with an extension. Classic Theme Restorer's Arris has a github site with stuff you can apply by editing Firefox's userchrome.css file in the profile directory. I used to do that back when, but any such changes are global.

FF 57 is is noticeably faster, both in invocation and in page rendering. I consider WebExtensions a work in progress. uBlock's author, for example, had a back and forth with the WebExtensions devs about things he needed in the WebEx API to be able to do a WebEx rewrite of uBlock, and things got added to the API in response.

I'm spending more time in FF 57 and FDE now because the most important bases are covered. I'd like replacements for Dict and Image Zoom, but can live without them.

Thus far, I'm more pleased with FF 57 than I expected to be.
______
Dennis

[therube]

@PrimusUltimo, very well said.
(I could have said the same, but the way I would have written it, it would have turned into a rant :evilgrin:.)

[PrimusUltimo]

There is apparently a WebEx version of NoScript now

There is. Comically, it rejects all my attempts at whitelisting MozillaZine. The only usable workaround is to "temporarily allow all this page". Unless I figure it out soon, or it's fixed, I guess I'll switch to another script blocker. Truth be told, though, the add-ons were close to being my main reason for using Firefox, so I'm not ruling out switching browsers, while I'm at it.

I know that I should be happy that the Firefox developers decided to gut all add-ons, to keep *bleeping* *bleep* *bleep-bleeps* with impulse control issues safe from the astonishingly unforeseen bad consequences of whimsically installing add-ons that promise what only complete *bleep-bleeps* can think are sensible functions, like bunny-ears on all letters 'O'. We should keep the future Darwin award winners comfortable for the short time they're among us. Still, the wisdom in making them the target market segment for Firefox evades me.

@PrimusUltimo, very well said.
(I could have said the same, but the way I would have written it, it would have turned into a rant :evilgrin:.)

Funny you should say that. My first draft was rejected by a mod, who seemed to think that I should be able to "get [my] point across without the insults on people at Mozilla". Your reply seems to prove the mod right. I still think the rewrite leaves a little something to be desired, though...

[dmccunney]

There is apparently a WebEx version of NoScript now

There is. Comically, it rejects all my attempts at whitelisting MozillaZine. The only usable workaround is to "temporarily allow all this page". Unless I figure it out soon, or it's fixed, I guess I'll switch to another script blocker. Truth be told, though, the add-ons were close to being my main reason for using Firefox, so I'm not ruling out switching browsers, while I'm at it.

As mentioned, I dropped NoScript and just use uBlock Origin. I'm not paranoid about blocking scripts.

One reason I'm not has pluses and minuses. All browsers have been increasingly limiting what JavaScript is allowed to do. It is supposed to execute in a sandbox, and be unable to affect anything outside of it. In particular, it's not allowed to affect the local machine. The steady reduction of what can be done in JavaScript that might affect the local machine is a reason why I'm not paranoid about scripts.

The other reason for using NoScript tends to be blocking ads by denying execute permission to sites that want to use JS to serve ads. I'm not fanatical about ad blocking, either. uBlock Origin is a good general purpose blocker. But there are an assortment of commercial sites that link to many external sites, some of which serve ads, and getting the whitelisting in uBlock and NoScript for the sites so that they would work as expected was a time consuming PITA. One or the other was usable. Both at once increasingly wasn't.

I know that I should be happy that the Firefox developers decided to gut all add-ons, to keep *bleeping* *bleep* *bleep-bleeps* with impulse control issues safe from the astonishingly unforeseen bad consequences of whimsically installing add-ons that promise what only complete *bleep-bleeps* can think are sensible functions, like bunny-ears on all letters 'O'. We should keep the future Darwin award winners comfortable for the short time they're among us. Still, the wisdom in making them the target market segment for Firefox evades me.

That's happening all over. Google is having lots of fun reining in the Android app ecosystem in the Play Store, and Apple was already pretty draconian about what could get listed on and be downloadable from iTunes.

I'm not as upset as you are. Firefox "gutting" extensions is a consequence of the technology shift. And I'm actually fairly pleased with the way Firefox 57 is coming along. I'm spending more time in it than in my Firefox ESR instance. And as for switching browsers, what might you switch to?

Under the hood of all Mozilla programs was the Gecko rendering engine. Gecko understood and rendered HTML and SS, and interpreted and executed JavaScript. It also understood and rendered XUL, an XML language for creating user interfaces. The look-and-feel of Mozilla programs was implemented in XUL, CSS, and widgets, with JavaScript performing the actions when you clicked on something. Because of that, you could create themes that completely revamped what the programs looked like, and extensions that dramatically modified and extended what the did.

XUL has been deprecated for a while. Mozilla wanted to have Firefox for mobile, and XUL couldn't make the trip. Mozilla also poured a fair amount of time, money, and developer effort into Firefox OS, which was trying to compete with Android. It was lighter weight, but hardware was getting steadily faster, more powerful, and cheaper. Pretty much everything that could run Firefox OS could also run Android, and did. The Firefox OS project was cancelled and the developers laid off. Why Mozilla ever thought it could compete with Android is quite beyond me.

Mozilla is once again throwing out the baby with the bathwater, like they did when they first set out to replace Netscape Communicator 4, starting with a clean slate and now code base. The rendering engine is being rewritten, and in a new Mozilla developed language called Rust. The first big part, Stylo, is complete and is what Firefox 57 uses for rendering. Other pieces will be replaced as the rewrites are complete. The point to Stylo is to exploit parallel processing to speed things up, and FF 57 is significantly faster. (A goal was to make it faster than Chrome, and it is.)

The side effect is that existing "legacy" extensions no longer work. Stuff that used XUL stopped working before FF 57. Extensions had to be pure JavaScript. Now, extensions must be pure JavaScript, and use the Web Extensions API. The good part is that the Web Extensions API is broadly compatible with the approach Chrome and Edge use, and it's possibly to write extensions that can be installed in any of them. The bad part is that a lot of what existing extensions do can't be done using just the current WebEx API.

But the Web Extensions API is under continuing development, so there is hope down the road. (Among other things, I really want an extension that will replace Password Exporter, but the API that can access passwords and do what that does isn't there yet. I think it's supposed to land in FF 58.)

My big question is whether what Mozilla wants to do could have been done by refactoring and enhancing Gecko, instead of doing a rewrite, and throwing out the baby with the bathwater again. I have no idea, and it's quite possible it couldn't.

But given how little attention Mozilla seems to pay to what users say they want, I'm not sure they cared whether changes they were making would be incompatible with what people were used to doing. The Mozilla devs seem to live in an echo chamber, insulated from what the user base thinks or wants. Whether it realizes it or not, Mozilla is make a heavy bet that the newer faster Firefox will reverse the steady erosion in Firefox browser market share. Mozilla gets its funding from search provider deals, but the search providers make the deals expecting forwarded traffic. As Firefox usage declines, the incentive for search providers to make those funding deals drops. What happens if that well runs dry?
______
Dennis

[PrimusUltimo]

@dmccunney
Thanks for a long and informative post! I haven't followed the developments in and of Mozilla in any consistent way for a long time. You're bringing in the greater perspective, and the principles at the core of Mozilla.

Why Mozilla ever thought it could compete with Android is quite beyond me.

What I don't get, is why Mozilla would care whether they "compete" or not. Their stated purpose is to:

- Build and enable open-source technologies and communities that support the Manifesto’s principles;
- Build and deliver great consumer products that support the Manifesto’s principles;
- Use the Mozilla assets (intellectual property such as copyrights and trademarks, infrastructure, funds, and reputation) to keep the Internet an open platform;
- Promote models for creating economic value for the public benefit; and
- Promote the Mozilla Manifesto principles in public discourse and within the Internet industry.

There's nothing there about market share or maximizing revenue.

User security, user control, and user freedom should be central to anything Mozilla makes. People have been made light of for stating that the add-ons were an important motivation for their choice of Firefox. Well, making software that allows add-ons is actually an embodyment of the core to both the Manifesto and the Pledge. Those are two twins they had better not throw out with the bath water! People who complain about the add-on carnage have far more insight into the concept of Mozilla (though, I suspect, intuitively, more than intellectually), than those who go along with it, absent any protest.

In my opinion, Mozilla should continue to develop a mobile OS. What they shouldn't, is care about market shares. They should provide a trustworthy, open source, high quality alternative, and let users avail themselves of it - or not.

They should also be very careful about breaking compatibility. Doing so is a well known market maneuver, employed by major companies, usually to the detriment of users. That doesn't mean that it's never justified, or that it should never be done. It does, however, mean that an organization like Mozilla should avoid it when possible, and, when not possible, bend over backwards to accomplish it without causing needless problems for users and third party developers.

True, it's hard not to care about revenue. As Mozilla grows, more jobs become dependent on that revenue, and those are the jobs of the decision makers and developers. However, providing jobs is not a part of Mozilla's purpose. Should following its basic goals lead to a significant loss of revenue, Mozilla can, and should, revert to its idealistic Open Source origins. What it should never do, is turn into just another revenue hungry corporation. I'm afraid FF57 may turn out to be a huge step in this direction, as well as a signal that the principles aren't very strong in the organization.

The gut-punch that FF57 is to add-ons and users, is also a gut-punch to Mozilla's founding ideas.

To mitigate the risk of coming off as a fanatic: I'm not opposed to a balance between the pragmatism of revenue and the idealism of principles. However, to the extent that Mozilla should err, it should be on the side of principles.

[efox99]

I never noticed until now in FF57 that I can edit the username and password! Before I would use Saved Password Editor. I guess that's a pointless addon now.

Guess that leaves Password Exporter on my list of addons I would like to have since FF57 does not have a password backup option the way it has one for bookmarks.

[therube]

That's happening all over.

Is not an excuse for it to be happening here.

Mozilla is once again throwing out the baby with the bathwater

Mozilla is throwing us (well at least me) out with the bathwater.

starting with a clean slate

Man, how I wish they had done that.

Instead look what we have. A morass.

FF 57 is significantly faster

Yes, & I've run tests myself to show just that fact.
But, I've to be able to determine - for myself, whether it is in fact meaningful?

(A goal was to make it faster than Chrome, and it is.)

Woop-de-doo, bragging rights. That's almost as impressive (to me) as being fast.

The side effect is that existing "legacy" extensions no longer work.

And if that were the extent of it, I'd be (somewhat) OK with that.
But that is hardly the situation.
For the limited extensions that do exist (lets take, say NoScript), they (we, not they, well, I guess they too, because they have to come up with something that is "workable" [cough] given the restrictions they are under) have to go through highly convoluted actions to do what was simple in the XUL version, not to mention webex version is nowhere near as feature rich as XUL version. It's a UI/UX nightmare (to me at least). I'm too stupid to use this version. XUL has been with me for years.

there is hope

Optimism is good. I'm optimistic.

Web Extensions API is broadly compatible with the approach Chrome and Edge use, and it's possibly to write extensions that can be installed in any of them.

And just how does that benefit Mozilla? Mozilla users?
So some lousy extension that Chrome might happen to have everyone can say is "good enough", can make them forget how much better the existing, but now dead, XUL version we had was. (And that assumes someone takes the time to write or port, & that such a port will actually run in FF.)

How "compatible" are the various flavors of Linux these days? (Not looking for an answer, & I don't really know.)

The bad part is that a lot of what existing extensions do can't be done using just the current WebEx API.

How very true.

the newer faster Firefox will reverse

(We'll leave the faster part out) but how could something that is less then what it was reverse anything?

What I don't get, is why

IMO, that can only be answered by $$.

turn into just another revenue hungry corporation. I'm afraid FF57 may turn out to be a huge step in this direction

It already is.

The gut-punch that FF57 is to add-ons and users

Lets not forget the addon developers.
They're the ones that have to (try to) make something out of nothing.
And lets not forget, they did XUL, they were told the thing to do was bootstrap, they did, then FF turns around & says (throw out the bathwater), webextensions.