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The loss of marketshare has accelerated since Quantum

Discussion of general topics about Mozilla Firefox
Grumpus

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Post Posted March 21st, 2018, 11:04 am

This is probably not going to help - Privacy worries over privacy mechanism - Nightlies

Since 2005 when I first started to use Firefox there's been a great number of extensions which seemed to me to be unnecessary, simple tweaks which were redundant of the Browser function. I liken some of them to early Windows programs which were more complicated and time wasting than a pencil and did nothing to improve productivity, they just looked nifty.
If the market share depended on these virtual do nothings then Firefox market share would have disappeared much faster than so many want to believe or promote.
It seems to me it's more a matter of policy and a loss of understanding the balance between commerce and privacy and how it affects the broader user base.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted March 22nd, 2018, 6:51 am

Grumpus wrote:It seems to me it's more a matter of policy and a loss of understanding the balance between commerce and privacy and how it affects the broader user base.

There is no balance to be made.

Would people accept PDF readers that sent anonymous data regarding .pdf filesizes and frequency of use in order 'to improve our services'? How about media players or graphics program? No? So why the **** does anyone think it acceptable that an internet browser does anything more than show webpages?

Why is a constant stream of outgoing telemetry about every move you make and a ad-filled New Tab page thought to be OK in a browser, when you wouldn't put up with it in any other program? The only reason people do is that they are scared about the security side, which is why they relentlessly update browsers that introduce features (ads, telemetry, cliqz, etc) that they would never tolerate in other software programs.

Yes, there is the argument that removing legacy extensions and making Firefox as bland and unindividualistic as every other browser out there, means that users might as well use any one them instead, i.e. marketshare type stuff. But really this is missing the point, unless the privacy side is as it should be, then you could bring back legacy extensions tomorrow and it would be like putting lipstick on a pig.

Mozilla seem to be missing the point that many people trust them about as far as they could throw them these days - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/03/2 ... y_worries/

Let's quickly deal with the usual privacy related 'rebuttal' comebacks -

'The data collected is anonymous...'
- this one is like the perv who says that it's acceptable for him to hang around in backyards spying on women getting changed in their bedrooms with binoculars, er, because he doesn't know any of their names!

'I've got nothing to hide...' - too easy, two words - Identity Theft.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Telemetry
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Grumpus

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Post Posted March 22nd, 2018, 12:31 pm

Unfortunately commerce is always involved. From the ads on pages to the tracking and data collection to dictate content.
If it wasn't, there would be no real reason to provide so many so called services and apps which also transmit data in any number of directions for any number of good or bad reasons.
Television channels, both broadcast and cable, are moving towards on-line streaming because they feel the market is moving away all seem to provide various services and apps and in amny cases require on-line for even the simplest of EPGs.
The recent Facebook and Cambridge Analytica examples just how people's practices are the best deterrent but market share is still commerce based .
What you have to go through, whether it's a browser or a service like Facebook, to clear or conceal private information should not be akin to untying a Gordian knot.

An honest example of intrusion for commerce:
I broke my little flip phone the other day and sent away for a new one which the phone company provides gratis.
Instead of getting a simple replacement flip phone which doesn't do much more than make a call, the company apparently has a deal with Google Android and sent me a complicated piece of privacy invasion which I never wanted, don't like and can't work because my fingers are too big, that and it wants to follow me around with this and that crap app which Google or the phone company stacked on it. Just because you get something for free does not mean you're not giving away more than you received in value of any kind.
They wouldn't be doing this if commerce and data collection for commercial use was not involved.
Phones and browsers should be secure enough and functional to not have to worry about such things but the money which supports the Internet comes from some of the worst self serving sources.
There may be some justification for data collection for improvement but it seems it should be metered, which as far as I can tell from going through the connections and watching the IP monitor it's not.
Reality does demand some honest assessment of commercial balance but it does not appear to be even considered in some quarters.
Betcha the Winkelmeyers are glad they aren't on the Facebrute Book spotlight now.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted March 23rd, 2018, 5:36 am

Grumpus wrote:Unfortunately commerce is always involved. From the ads on pages to the tracking and data collection to dictate content..

No, it's not.

That is precisely what the Open Source movement is about. Entire operating systems, endless programs including browsers and no one wants any money, data, information from you. People have a choice.

I'm surprised you missed that as you use it every day, Linux is a major part of that movement.
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

Grumpus

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Post Posted March 23rd, 2018, 6:19 am

I haven't missed the open source and freeware benefits but the commerce is on the net regardless of how altruistic the intent of developers and designers.
If I do something for someone and am not duplicitous, this is a free choice and I am not looking for anything , not even a thank you, in return.
Unfortunately there are a great many duplicitous people who pervert the concept of doing something nice to cover commercial intent.
This is very prevalent in the tech world. and is exampled repeatedly.

Also there's nothing wrong with wanting some return for your efforts but it should be up front, in full view and and something which has the option to allow or disallow easily, as in data collection.
There's also a blinders on policy to accepting money orders for donations or payment to an actual mailing address by a tech industry trying to promote the use of electronic means.
Many is the time I've wanted to send a small amount, $50 or so but can't because I refuse to use credit cards even the prepaid ones. This is a minor loss of revenue for some developers but makes no sense other than it's idiotic promotion of credit cards.
Trying to circumvent this blockade does not lend very well to open source donations which might encourage more

Frank Lion

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Post Posted March 23rd, 2018, 6:45 am

Grumpus wrote:I haven't missed the open source and freeware benefits but the commerce is on the net regardless of how altruistic the intent of developers and designers.

Well, there are also puddles in the street after rain, but it's easy enough to step around them.

I'll leave it there as I get the feeling you are now just writing for the sake of writing something.
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Grumpus

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Post Posted March 23rd, 2018, 10:25 am

@Frank Lion - sorry for the wander,getting closer to 70 this year and I was a child of the sixties..
In fini: The market share idea would hold merit if the various companies providing operating systems weren't fondling the controls and discrete installs by users were not happening.
Regardless of whether the system is open source, proprietary or other the true count has to be gleaned from the end users.
Granted a large institutional user with thousands of computers in use has an affect, like a government, but the great unknown quantity is just that.
You can use all the extrapolation, algorithmics or chaos to try and calculate but the reality is there is no definitive market share.
Market share counts are airbiscuit left by passing flying pigs.
As to questions which may arise to privacy when getting something for nothing I place before all the old tome, "One shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth."
It's pretty obvious this clown never had to pay the dental bill for some nag left on their doorstep.

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