Anyone 'losing faith'?

Discussion of general topics about Mozilla Firefox
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Post Posted February 12th, 2004, 9:31 am

vfwlkr wrote:
bengoodger wrote:It'd also be great if this forum system had post scoring, so that I could easily see the end result of this collaboration without having to read through the genesis ;-) Sort of like what Slashdot does.
I have to fully agree with Ben on this - there is way too much noise. This thread had one or two people expressing their opinion in a productive manner, but the rest of is the same old story.
havent read anyfurther than here and its only page 5 but ill say it anyway and risk repeating someone elses words. Since the forums are using phpBB in the next release there will be the option to rank post so that should fix that problem for everyone. Thats assuming you upgrade the board to 2.2 when it is eventually released.

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Post Posted February 12th, 2004, 9:50 am

I love Firefox. People should stop complaining. Slower than IE? Not really, especially when you consider the speed gains since the last version. It starts so much quicker than Firebird v0.7, so if there's further improvement on v0.9 and all versions after that it'll be great. This browser gets better on every milestone release, and who cares what it's called? It works, it's great free software, and maybe the name will change again? I don't mind as long as it does the job.

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Post Posted February 12th, 2004, 9:54 am

People complain and have opinions because they care.


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Post Posted February 12th, 2004, 10:33 am

Hymagumba wrote:
mozBirdLuva wrote:How many times does a keyboard become disconnected? Phew it's hard enough writing software for standard siutations let alone expecting some button to be on a toolbar to help you with some obscure situation.

Right click the toolbar Hymagumba and drag the print icon on your toolbar yourself.

What I mean is a lot of people just use the buttons on the toolbar, I'm more of a menu person now but I used to ONLY use the toolbar. I've already plonked it there, it's other "end-users" (which, lets be honest, is a euphanism for moron) I'm thinking about here, someone else I converted asked where was the print button if you have to know which renforced my idea. A standard situation for him would be to press the big print button, not use the menus/keyboard like I do.

I'm actually thining of other users here, in Word at school I removed the print button because I kept pressing it by accident.

Why not put a print command in the page's right-click menu? Wouldn't add any toolbar buttons but still makes print accessable without the keyboard. But then, so does choosing File -> Print... :rolleyes:

Or, this can be taken one step further. Buttons on the Navigation Toolbar appear in the contexual menu, with seperator lines on the toolbar creating deviders in the menu. So the menu's up-down listings match the toolbar's left-right listing.

Sorry this is a little off topic, I just thought how this would make the menu customizable, yet navigation would be easier (less hunting for the command) in the menu.

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Post Posted February 12th, 2004, 12:39 pm

Just came to think of it... WTF could you expect to find in the file menu?? I mean, everybody knows because it is like that everywhere in windows. But how often do you squeeze a printer into a file? And i've never had to open a file cabinet to close my windows =P
To get on topic though: Nope, not losing faith. The name change is ok by me and all the browser in general is still great. Personally I think it's great to have this thing controlled, especially since it relies upon extensions.


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Post Posted February 12th, 2004, 1:05 pm

Antrex wrote:Just came to think of it... WTF could you expect to find in the file menu?? I mean, everybody knows because it is like that everywhere in windows. But how often do you squeeze a printer into a file? And i've never had to open a file cabinet to close my windows

It comes to us via MacOS. The Apple HIG specifies it. They have to go somewhere and in MacOS (Classic) where every window IS a file, it makes sense. File>Print... is "Print this file", File>Close is "Close a file", File>Quit got there because it made sense near close (I'm guessing there).

The reason it stays there is for the reasons you mentioned, because everybody knows it's there. Every so often some genius gets the idea to move the stuff around (you can find shareware apps that do this) and it sucks because you can never find anything.
Last edited by grayrest on February 12th, 2004, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Posted February 12th, 2004, 1:07 pm

Dunderklumpen wrote:People complain and have opinions because they care.

Cool. But bear in mind it's only a web browser. An unfinished one, at that.



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Post Posted February 12th, 2004, 1:11 pm

I thank you for your hard work. I haven't paid a dime for this excellent browser (feeling ashamed of not yet making a donation). I am very happy with the browser and find it very easy to use. It has every feature I want, and love the fact that it doesnt come with ones I don't.

You are doing a great job. Keep up the good work.

Thank You,

David James

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Post Posted February 12th, 2004, 1:19 pm

denis09 wrote:
David James wrote:But just consider a few of Konq's definite advantages:
-single window mode - all popups (requested or not) and new window calls are shoved into new tabs
-more tab features, such as detach and duplicate tabs as well as tab reordering
-Crash recovery (available in the konq add-on pack)
-externally called URLs open in a new tab without employing some end-user hack

These are easily added with Tab Browsing Extensions.

Not externally called URLs in Linux, and the way TBE puts those popups and new windows into tabs is not very pretty.

denis09 wrote:
David James wrote:-automatic plugin integration

I would not say Konq handles plugins better than Firefox at all.. I have little or no problems with Firefox & plugins on either Windows or Linux (even different distros)..

I respectfully disagree. With a binary, Mozilla has no idea if plugins already exist on the system or not (Debian binaries are much better that way). By contrast, Konqueror looks in a number of likely places and has the ability to add more places still.

denis09 wrote:
David James wrote:-spell-as-you-go in text areas
-a sane Settings UI that is cean, clear (no "Web Features" or "Advanced") and comprehensive
-configurable keyboard shortcuts

I personally think that once Firefox stabilizes (around 1.0 I would think?) and the settings dialog does not change so often, it has a far superior (both in looks and feel) settings UI than Konq. (And yes, I am an avid KDE user..) Additionally Konq doesn't really have all that many advanced features (I know I miss a lot when I now and then fire it up / try to use it.)

Again I disagree. It's unlikely FF will see spell-as-you-go any time soon. The basic layout of Konq's UI is the same but its categories and contents are far more logical and extensive without taking on the cluttered look of Mozilla or Opera.

And I'm curious as to what advanced features FF has that Konq doesn't - there's "find-as-you-type" but there's already a wishlist bug out for this. Or maybe the search bar? Konq uses the URL bar for Google searches but it could do with a separate search bar to keep searches and urls apart. Still, the core search function is there and many FF users prefer it that way (hence the requests to alter it from I'm feeling lucky).

denis09 wrote:
David James wrote:-printing goes through kprinter rather than that unholy mess called xprint that doesn't even work unless you pipe output to .ps or to another print manager (such as kprinter)
-mailto:s etc work right off the bat

Linux specific problems, but definitely easily solvable.

Except they've lingered for years and still aren't fully solved and both count as strikes against using FF in Linux. I want to see a way to specify an external print manager (kprinter, qtcups, xpp, etc) that Mozilla will pipe .ps out to without an intervening Mozilla print manager. That is not going to happen any time soon. And mailtos are still a problem since you have to open up Gnome's Control Centre and actually add a mailto service (hopefully the next release of Gnome will provide it automatically so you just have to specify the client).

denis09 wrote:
David James wrote:-base theme doesn't conflict with dark OS themes (since it IS the OS theme) (try opening up the FF Options dialog with text set to white. hah)

The theme thingie is better if you use KDE3.2 as it integrates colourschemes better with GTK2 apps. Did you try running Firefox in Gnome2 ?

I'm using a pre-release of KDE3.2 which already has the Gnome 2 integration. But that's not the problem. This occurs in Windows, Gnome and KDE if you have got text set to white - it's an inherent flaw in the Options UI since it hardcodes the background colour to light blue but not the text itself, so you basically can't see the text. The background to the category icons should be supplied by the OS theme, not the default theme (the default theme should simply act as a pass-through for the system theme).

denis09 wrote:
David James wrote:This list doesn't include areas where they're equal. All that Konq really needs is a way to switch between Gecko and KHTML and there'd be no contest after that.

It actually has (/ had ?) support for Gecko. But it doesn't really integrate it very well..
Konq is improving, but not as much as Firefox, and not as fast IMHO..

I've heard rumours of Konq+Gecko, but it seems like it's difficult to integrate (which actually doesn't surprise me). Maybe once GRE is separated Konq will be able to use Gecko easily. At any rate, I think Konq has improved more in the last year than has Phx/FB/FF since it has basically caught up to FF in most regards and is ahead in several others.
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Post Posted February 12th, 2004, 6:28 pm

esavior wrote:Is this what your looking for grayrest?

The problem with reviews is not about finding information on who to bug for a review, but actually getting one. We have over a hundred patches lying around for firefox, which are mostly bitrotted by now, because no developer looks at them. A lot of the smaller nuisances could already be solved if those patches were reviewed.
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Post Posted February 12th, 2004, 6:55 pm

I'm not sure how your going to go about the auto-update etc.

Something like these:

Ironically, the second one is a sticky and four posts have been made to it.


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Post Posted February 12th, 2004, 8:01 pm

Dunderklumpen wrote:People complain and have opinions because they care.

True, in some cases. In other cases, they complain and have opinions because they are whiners. EXCEPT when it comes to the name and icon - THOSE are valid issues for comment.
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Post Posted February 13th, 2004, 10:43 am

Hymagumba wrote:Now let's think about the bugs I've posted,
Put a print button on the toolbar - one, when I had my keyboard disconnected and therefore couldn't press Ctrl + P I went looking on the toolbar, IE has one, word has one and, unless I'm mistaken, SeaMonkey has one. I therefore thought that most people (as I had) would expect there to be a print button on there.

I take it you've never tried right clicking on the toolbar, clicking customise and dragging a print button onto the toolbar...

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Post Posted February 14th, 2004, 1:00 am

"Losing faith" is a good way to describe my perspective. It seems sudden changes (download manager, app name) are made with each new release, usually changes that just make me shake my head somewhat sadly. However I have paid nothing for Firebird/Foxfire and I am grateful there is an alternative to IE on Windows at all. (I tried Opera but found its window layout too "busy.")


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Post Posted February 14th, 2004, 1:24 am

To be honest, I was away (offline) during the updates, so it was a little of a rude shock to hear of the name change.

Then I had missing back/forward buttons after upgrading.

Still, after reading what the developers had to say of the name change, and doing a little searching of the forum here, I'm satisfied and my problem is fixed.

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